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Author Topic: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE  (Read 2334981 times)

tak22

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hanon,

Thanks for your kind words, but in all honesty it's your Figuera info on this page that I used for investigating!

I based my timeline chart on the translated texts and the patent drawings, and once you start laying them out they make sense. In some cases there can be virtually no doubt, in others it makes sense in relation to what is written and the re-use of confirmed drawings.

The drawing progression goes from conventional generator design with only enough space for a coreless induced coil, then to side by side inducers with no induced core shown, to side by side inducers with induced core, then finally to linear with induced core. Once you see the pattern you can almost foolproof determine the patent profile by it's drawing alone!

And now I'll climb out on the limb and say that any talk about needing massive amounts of iron and miles of wire is suspect. Nothing I read in all of these patents even hints at anything so subtle going on that it requires a "go big or go home" unit to show the effect. No harm intended for anyone that is approaching it this way, there's no manual after all!

This isn't a current project for me, just observing and commenting.

tak

RandyFL

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Noted...

I have read the patents... I haven't studied the patents in great detail because I am not there yet ( meaning...I had to get the electronics done first )... as I explained to Ramaswami I started electronics school about the same time as He did... I marvel at the 555, the arduino and the raspberry Pi 2... and anything that comes down the pike electronically or magnetically...but most of all I marvel at the mathematics behind it... Michael Faraday taught himself... Tesla quit the university... I studied some of Tesla's patents more than I have studied Clemente's admittedly... I have an arduino and the Raspberry Pi 2 sitting and waiting to be used... I ordered two more of them in case I break them or whatever...I have poured over 1000 s of schematics looking at semiconductors...looking and grasping concepts that I can use down the line...I am not frustrated as Hernandez stated...my tests are backed up from when I had my surgery in May...on the contrary I am excited about the possibilities...

I assumed the apparatus that Bajac built worked...but more importantly I want to hear the results ( what did work - and why something didn't work ) frame by frame I watched Woopy and Kehyo... looked at what they did and what they use/d... I poured over the pictures that Bajac produced... examined and studied each frame each square inch of His work space...what He built...the equipment He uses ( the names of the equipment.... Not because I'm " dedicated "........but because I am " INTERESTED " I'm interested in finding how Clemente reached his conclusions...He must of sat there and watched motors spin ( or anything that spun ) for hrs... days... months...years or whatever until the machine and the mathematics melded......................................kinda like watching Led s light  :)

 

NRamaswami

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I'm sorry I have to post this reply..I neither feel offended nor intend to offend any one but some talk and comments are clearly not acceptable.

I will always trust the man who would walk the talk and put the money where his mouth is..Simple. This is what a simple minded person with common sense would do..

Regarding the drawing..on 30378..Patent

Please see the Claims for that patent below:

"Founded on these considerations, Mr. Clemente Figuera and Mr. Pedro
Blasberg, in the name and on behalf of the society "Figuera-Blasberg"
respectfully requests to be granted final patent of invention for this generator
whose form and arrangement are shown in the attached drawings, warning that,
in them, and for clarity are sketched only eight electromagnets, or two sets of
four excitatory electromagnets in each, and the induced circuit is marked by a
thick line of reddish ink,
being this way the general arrangement of the
appliance, but meaning that you can put more or less electromagnets and in
another form or grouping"

I clearly remember seeing the Red Line of the induced coils in this patent when I saw it first. Red line has suddenly disappeared..

A check on the web archive shows that 9 changes were made to this page..Please see..http://web.archive.org/web/20130501000000*/http://www.alpoma.net/tecob/?page_id=8258

Regarding the comment that large iron core and wire is not needed for making the "effect" there is no dispute for the effect can be made for testing by a small device on your table if you want. The generator itself is described in the patent text as follows.

"DESCRIPTION OF GENERATOR OF VARIABLE EXCITACION “FIGUERA”

The machine comprise a fixed inductor circuit, consisting of several electromagnets with soft iron cores exercising induction in the induced circuit, also fixed and motionless, composed of several reels or coils, properly placed. As neither of the two circuits spin, there is no need to make them round, nor leave any space between one and the other."

So the small Y magnets are fixed and motionless and composed of several reels or coils.

What is the length of one reel. 305 Meters or 1000 feet. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reel

Electromagnets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnet

If small Y electromagnets are composed of several reels of coils what about the large Inductor electromagnets?

If you want to see the effect on a table, a small table top device is enough. If you want to replicate the device for industrial purposes, then the description that Figuera used in his specification must be followed..Probaly learned friends here know more than him. After all poor man died a hundred years ago and education levels have increased..So he did not know simulation and did not know electronics..If simulation alone can work, then India and China which build Nuclear Submarines and Satellites and ICBMs and Nuclear Bombs can easily build jet engines..But neither country is able to build Jet Engines or aircraft for it requires real hardcore hands on experience and technical know how. That is what Figuera had.

It is easy to do photoediting of drawings but people tend to forget to edit the text describing the drawings..

Some people may study patents for commenting only... Ramaswami does that for a living..Not only that he has taught patents to hundreds of people and 25 of his students are Registered Patent Agents..Some people would not put their money where their mouth is...Ramaswami would put his money where his mouth is and would not just talk but walk the talk...If he has weaknesses he would happilly admit..If he make mistakes he would sincerely apologize..

I'm really so sorry that this is a simple device that can change the world and so many misleading statements are made again and again to prevent people from getting to know this device. This Figuera device works. It can be constructed easily.. I will show a working device after two weeks. If starting without even knowing the difference between voltage and amperage I can modify it without moving parts,and post it open source online, any one can also do this machine off patent now any where in the world. The machine can also be self sustained..But I had been warned that drawing power from the environment that way may result in lightening and I had been told to avoid it. So I have avoided that part alone. This machine produces more output than input.

MagnaProp

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...I will show a working device after two weeks...
If you could do a step by step build log with images and or video as you construct the device, that would be awesome. Whatever you can show is greatly appreciated. I'm an electronics newb but find the Figuera concept fascinating. Small table top example is fine.

hanon

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    • https://figueragenerator.wordpress.com/
 Sadly, the “reddish line” was not drawn in the 30378 patent since I recovered it from the historical archives of the Spanish Patent Office. It is a pity but that fuc..ing line was not in the patent drawing. It is something that disturbed me from the first moment. Why was that line missing from the patent drawing?. Therefore there are more configurations to test: it is not specified explicitly in the text how the induced is oriented. Ramaswami: you should have think about the red line which is drawn in the other patent (patent 30376). In that patent the induced circuit is drawn. You can check it in the pdf file
 
Just for curiosity: when I checked the patent archives I could read that during the 1902 patent filing two copies of each patent memory were deposited in the patent office. Today there is just one copy of each patent. The other copy is not there. Historical timeline:  Filing date : 4 Patents filed the 20th of September 1902 ; Reference to the patent sell to the bankers: around the 25th of September. Patent rejection: In October or November (I do not remember) there is an official request for some formal corrections into the 4 patents. As this correction was not done the patent were cancelled for lack of corrections in due date. I guess that as the patent were sold to the bankers (surely with the intention of burying them forever), nobody took care of doing the requested corrections in the patents and therefore the patent were cancelled by the patent office. I suppose that maybe some of the new owners could have ask for the second copy of the patents, and therefore that copy is not the patent archives anymore.
 

Doug1

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From Hannon
"Quoting another pragraph from the patent from 1914 (Buforn) with some cryptic sentences:



"The way to collect this current is so easy that it almost seems excused to explain it,
because we will just have to interpose between each pair of electromagnets N and S,
which we call inducers, another electromagnet, which we call induced, properly placed
so that either both opposite sides of its core will be into hollows in the corresponding
inducers and in contact with their respective cores, or either, being close the induced
and inducer and in contact by their poles, but in no case it has to be any communication
between the induced wire and the inducer wire."




Why did he make reference to two cases: 1- when there is contact between the induced and inducers cores and,  2- when they are close together and in contact by their poles ? Which is the difference between contacting through the cores and contacting through the poles?


Why did he mention that "in no case it has to be any communication between the induced wire and the inducer wire" ? At first sight it seems to be a redundant feature, does it?


Please comment your thoughts about these sentences. I am not able to understand their real meaning. I do not understand why Buforn emphatize those details.

 My response
   Because the method of induction is normal and not where the secrete is. It is only helpful to have a very good and strong electromagnet to have a very strong output. That in itself will only produce a big transformer of some form.It will not result in building a closed system where the useful effects of a magnetic field in motion are not destroyed.

NRamaswami

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Hanon,Doug1:

Both of you have the patent text of the last Buforn patent. That is the only patent that discloses the best method of operating the device. We have seen that the straight pole is the best mode and not the 7 cores connected in series..Both of you will not send me the translated text. I do not read spanish. I know how to read patent text..What can I do?

This patent was drafted 100 years back..Still it is not enabling people to replicate it. See how cleverly it was drafted.

This does not give what the poles are and I tested and identified it as opposite poles.

This does not give the method of winding the coils..This also I tested and found out. This has confused all of you and all have claimed that identical poles must be placed in view CW and CCW windings until I pointed out.

There is only one secret...

This patent shows three coils..

An input coil..

An output coil

A feed back coil in phase with the primary.

The secret is that the winding pattern of Primary coils is not disclosed. If it is a multifilar coil as the number of coils increase the inductive impedance increases so much it will not allow the current to flow through but the multiple rotating currents will create many magnetic waves one aidng the other and will create a very strong magnetic field inspite of the low input.  As lot of iron is used and the electromagnet in whatever geometrical form you wind it tends to focus the magnetic force in the center. Therefore once you determine what is the amount that the primary will consume, the feedback coil must provide only that or slightly above that for giving the feedback.

The super duper complex commutator is a diversionary tactics employed to hide the simple secret. I very quickly found that the commutator and the resistor array are redundant. You use the multifilar primary and the proper feedback backed up by a voltage limiting MOV (metal oxide varistor) and a fuse to blow the fuse away to prevent the runaway current, then you have an electromagnet that is continuously oscillated. Such an electromagnet will continuously produce the output current.

Counter emf will be present but is negated by the use of winding pattern and placing the coil within the cores or within the poles. Think about it..If the coil is placed inside the core one side of the coil is one pole of magnet and the other side of the coil is opposite pole. You have to connect the end of the feedback coil to the beginning of input coil and begiinng of feedback coil to the end of the input coil. Then wind an outside coil between two earth points and give it current once and the feeding current is removed and the iron is continuously oscillated.. Nothing more..You can take energy from any point on earth.

I'm warned that this method is known to many people but this method is dangerous because it taps energy directly from air and this can create a rush of energy to the system and this can result in lightening strikes on the system and lightening prefers living beings than inert material and so this method should not be employed. I'm also told told that many people have been killed attempting to do this. So the preferred method is to use the electronics method of using a battery and an inverter and then charging them.

Just think about it..

what is a permanent magnet.. You give dc current once to iron it becomes permanent magnet and remains a permanent magnet for supposedly 400 years. In practice I have seen it slowly reduce in magnetic intensity. Probably we gave less currrent.

What is an electromagnet..iron oscillated by AC or pulsed DC..Nothing more..If you can keep this oscillation continuous then you have continuous output. There is nothing else. No secrets. It is a very simple thing. How to keep the electromagnet always oscillated. Then you have a continuous production of electricity. 


TruthHunter

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The comment has been made that the Figuera device is likely massive. However, he traveled with it for exhibition so this seems
to put an upper limit on the size. Also, it seems that news articles might have commented on the size if it were significantly larger than
standard dynamos.

tak22

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So the small Y magnets are fixed and motionless and composed of several reels or coils.

What is the length of one reel. 305 Meters or 1000 feet. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reel

Electromagnets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnet

If small Y electromagnets are composed of several reels of coils what about the large Inductor electromagnets?

With respect, I don't think the generic word 'reel' has any more significance than 'coil' does in relation to the overall 'size' of the intended device. I think it's just another descriptor variation to convey an image.

If you want to see the effect on a table, a small table top device is enough.

Yes! That's all most people are interested in doing, creating a small proof of concept replication, and a small device is easier to improve upon as changes are easier to make and the results are easier to see, plus it's safer!


NRamaswami

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Tak 22:

Thanks for your post..

It cost me $20000 in my personal funds and very signficiant time to learn this and do this. I'm not interested in spending my money, my time, my expertise gained with considerable effort who would comment or think. Do it yourself if that is what is interesting to you. Thank you for your understanding and wish you Success


« Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 08:21:49 AM by NRamaswami »

bajac

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Tak 22:


Thanks for your post..


It cost me $20000 in my personal funds and very signficiant time to learn this and do this.


Are we talking about U.S. dollars? What is "... do this" that cost so much?


The comment has been made that the Figuera device is likely massive. However, he traveled with it for exhibition so this seems
to put an upper limit on the size. Also, it seems that news articles might have commented on the size if it were significantly larger than
standard dynamos.


You brought in an intersting topic. I estimate the prototype of the 1908 Figueras apparatus to weight between 300 and 600 pounds (or even 1,000 lbs). It is now my believe that the larger the coils and cores, the easier it is to replicate the Figera's effects. That is why I am presently building larger cores of about a foot. I think the failure of the devices built by Kenyo, Woopi, and I is not only due to the wrong shapes of the iron cores but also to the small sizes.


Noted...
I assumed the apparatus that Bajac built worked...but more importantly I want to hear the results ( what did work - and why something didn't work ) frame by frame I watched Woopy and Kehyo... looked at what they did and what they use/d... I poured over the pictures that Bajac produced... examined and studied each frame each square inch of His work space...what He built...the equipment He uses ( the names of the equipment.... Not because I'm " dedicated "........but because I am " INTERESTED " I'm interested in finding how Clemente reached his conclusions...He must of sat there and watched motors spin ( or anything that spun ) for hrs... days... months...years or whatever until the machine and the mathematics melded......................................kinda like watching Led s light


I cannot say I Have an overunity generator, yet. Even though my tests indicate a power gain, they are too marginal for such a claim. I will only claim overunity whenever I have a self-running generators that can power heavy loads, as claimed by Mr. Figuera. I do not believe in overunity generators that can only turn on LED devices.


Nervertheless, I am very happy with the results. For example, the primary current of my device is independent of the secondary current. And in this case, I am not talking about marginal values, but rather, order of magnitude differences. This is an extremely important result that is considered an impossible event for the standard transformers and the mainstream science. IT IS THE KEY FOR OVERUNITY GENERATORS!


Bajac

NRamaswami

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BajacC

What is US$20000. About 1.2 million Indian Rupees now and about spent over 27 months. I do not every thing myself and employ people to do things as I did not know any thing. For example I did not know what is voltage and what is amperage..Then Patrick wanted me to build a device and gave specs for that and we built it and every component of that electromagnetic device was built to his specs and he was satisfied. When we tested there was no electromagnetism. I used a variac and the variac fumed out. We then tried to make the device an electromagnet by connecting 200 x6 watts lamps in parallel and 200 x5 watts lamps in parallel. Zero electromagnetism..Patrick refused to believe me and I realized that the weakness is not knowing how to build magnets and electromagnets and I had to study and learn to build electromagnets and life and drop objects and at all and build permanent magnets and magnetize and demangnetise them. He then wanted us to build Figuera device and in between he retired and refused to answer mails. So we tried to build Figuera device ourselves and we had to learn. All coils were hand wound were heavy and this went on for many months and in by July 2013 we have learnt to make electromagnets well and in fact electromagnets that were very powerful and that would oscillate violently. We went to back to Figuera and no current came in identical poles and so had to reverse poles and then mofidied the central coil  as depicted in our pictures. We were getting results in a single core and not in all coils connected together. So we built a large single core coil and I realized that the flux availbale in the primary is being wasted and why it should be wasted and so I used it also  and we ended up with 630 no volts. We were stunned. We didnot expect so much voltage will come and then we connected to the earth to get the 620 and 20 amps figure.

Money is spent mainly on labour. This is a manpower intensive process. I did not know that we could wind using machines and even if is bought I would have asked my people to do this all as I had to focus on my practice. Labour does not come cheaply.

Your estimate of the 300 to 600 pounds weight is on nearly accurate side. We have found that the straight pole method of Buforn shown in the last patent to be the most efficient method. With all that we have had success off and on and some times the voltages fail to merge. So I looked at the principle and currently I have modified the device substantially and possibly we would get good results. let us see when I get it.
Trusted, honest and competent labour is not cheap. If you think that you can yourself modify the devices all on your own without helpers you can reduce your cost but about your time.

The reduced size Unit has about 2500 meters of 4 sq mm wires and about 200 kgm of soft iron. calculate the cost of it yourself.

I have bought lot of equipment that have gone waste. 3 people worked full time on this project apart from me.

Calculate the cost of 600 pound device you have in your mind along with the coils, cost of winding, cost of iron, time needed for testing, correcting etc etc. You will know how much this prloject will cost you then.  You would also know that you would have to put a lot of iron to prevent it from saturating and then many other things. We did not know at that time a R&D project of replicating a device is so costly. Had I known it I would not have ventured here. Calculate how much wire you would need, how much of current will have to flow through it and whether such current will saturate the iorn core. Then you put in more iron and make it bigger etc etc.

I moified and even last week and got 500 volts no load voltage in the secondary. I expect to get higher output results than input.

So this cost for a doing R &D project is not cheap. In material cost alone you are likely to spend $2000/-You would need about 2500 meters of wire. Check it and you would know.

Doug1

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  What happens when the cart gets ahead of the horse? for 200 Alex.

NRamaswami

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I'm sorry..I must apologize I made a mistake in my earlier post. We tried to connect 6 x 200 watts lamps connected in parallel in that attempt.

I must also apologize to tak22 for responding in a harsh way. See it is very expensive and very difficult to do things in this field. Theory is against the expected results or the objective of the experiments. We dare to go against the theory and experiment.  Expertise in some things do not come overnight. Especially in R&D Projects. In Electrical motors 300 to 500 Kg sizes are normal. Secondly many comments are made without even reading patent. Without intending to even make an effort to replicate making teasing comments is not fair. In any case I need not have responded harshly. Please accept my apologies.

Figuera Patent is very cleverly drafted. Buforn seems to be a very very intelligent Patent Attorney.  Figuera says that if we vary the strength of the current it wil result in magnetic flux. That variation is automatically present if you use AC. We need not use pulsed DC. If you use two primaries in series with the output coil placed in center the same effect happens when we apply AC.

I can confirm Bajacs statement that Lenz Law is not present in the center coil output.


How Lenz law is defeated in Figuera design..This is a reasoned analysis by a very Learned person on my use AC..

This is likely how the Lenz effect was mitigated. Let us take the coils P1 and P2 wound in the same direction. They will have the unlike poles facing each other at the centre. An alternating voltage is fed into the coils and from the wiring, live and neutral contacts are at the opposite ends of the the transformer (the secondary is in the centre of the two electromagnets created by the primary). During the +ve half of the AC cycle, the electromagnets are formed with unlike poles at the centre, say a N pole on the left of Central Secondary and S pole on the right of Central Secondary. So, Central Secondary is induced by the primary. The frequency is say 50Hz.  At the zero point of the AC cycle, just at the instant the voltage is rapidly switched, lenz effect kicks in generating a voltage (and magnetic flux) opposite that of the first half of P1 but just about the time the negative half of the Primary voltage is creating  magnetic flux and inducing Central Secondary but in the opposite direction to that of the first half of the cycle. This -ve cycle magnetic flux is reinforced by the back emf magnetic flux due to the first half cycle and the effect on the coil increases. If a load is placed on the secondary with this arrangement, similar reasoning can be used to assume that the lenz effect due to each Amp of current taken from the secondary will cancel out, ensuring that the load on the secondary does not influence the input. This sounds incredible." 

I can confirm that I have tested and the primary input remains the same. Whether the central secondary is loaded or not. Whatever be the load of the secondary the primary input is the same.

However I must most respectfully disagree with Bajac on transformers.

Transformer is an electrical device and it is designed to aid in the transmission of electricity. To reduce losses in tranmission it steps up the voltage from the generation point to the distribution point and steps down the voltage at the distribution point. For this it uses flux linking concept and for this purposefully it uses alternatively thinner secondaries of longer length and thicker secondaries of shorter length. It suffers from Backemf due to Lenz law which is normally present in all efforts. If you try to climb a mountain it is tough. This is similar to Lenz law opposition.

Lenz law is not present in certain situations. Electrically it is not present when the coils are wound between opposite poles. A simple example that can be given is that if we throw a stone from the top of the mountain the falling stone has no opposing force because it is attracted by gravity. Between mutually attracting poles or unlike poles or opposite poles Lenz law is absent. Figuera used this principle. This situation stops when the falling stone hits the flat surface. But when it reaches the bottom if the bottom were to turn up and and the top of the mountain were to become the bottom, stone will now have to go back towards to the point where it started due to gravity again. This is achieved by using AC. Figuera did the same thing by making the poles alternatively stronger and weaker. The Figuera design was obviously done to avoid Lenz law.

However Lenz law or counter emf or backemf can be very successfully used to make self sustaining generators. It was done by Daniel McFarland Cook in 1871. Therefore I must beg to disagree with the statement of Bajac that it is only when Lenz law is absent OU results can be obtained. My experiments show that it is possible to obtain such COP>1 results even with the presence of Lenz law effects. But they are so miniscule that it can be treated as manufacturing defect of meters.  Therefore in my earlier design I combined both to achieve cop>8 results but that design suffers from the normally known problems of combining voltages between multiple coils. So I have improved on it now with a simpler design.

I would request that let us share our experiences, knowledge and avoid indulging in oneupmanship statements or teasing others. It is actually frustrating. I had been told not even to come here and post and do my work but focus on research which I do part time as the need to make a living by focusing on my practice is more important to me. Be advised that the patent would take considerable skill to understand it and it is not what it appears to be on the surface.

Most people here have not still understood Figuera Patent. I myself did not until a few days ago. So I do not blame any one. Every drawing including the latest ones, made about the Figuera transformer todate misses two important elements of the design. 

RandyFL

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Bajac,
I think the failure of the devices built by Kenyo, Wopi, and I is not only due to the wrong shapes of the iron cores but also to the small sizes.

Patrick stated that you increase the size of the wire on the secondary... ( maybe that was an assumption )
neither woopy or kehyo had showed that in the videos...

Even though my tests indicate a power gain

It has been my intention all along was/is to achieve a gain and then ( as Doug1 has stated ) to build to one's needs...........
Cheers
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 08:46:46 PM by RandyFL »