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Author Topic: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY  (Read 11718286 times)

Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10125 on: September 03, 2015, 05:13:27 PM »
Nick,

Are the two halves of your primary winding in anti-phase?

T-1000

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10126 on: September 03, 2015, 05:13:34 PM »
See attached screenshot from Oleg. This is from his Youtube channel:

One thing to mention about this picture - the diode across variable resistor in the right almost defeats its purpose on changing charge time of capacitor. And because ol logical emenends have "AND"+"XOR" logic the purpose is a bit unknown for delaying already passed "ON" state with that capacitor before exiting last logic element. The another variable resistor+capacitor in the left gives same control. And also you can test logic in circuit simulation software such as Multisim.

Cheers!

lost_bro

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10127 on: September 03, 2015, 05:27:47 PM »
One thing to mention about this picture - the diode across variable resistor in the right almost defeats its purpose on changing charge time of capacitor. And because ol logical emenends have "AND"+XOR logic the purpose is a bit unknown for delaying already passed "ON" state with that capacitor before exiting last logic element. The another variable resistor+capacitor in the left gives same control. And also you can test logic in circuit simulation software.

Cheers!

Good day T-1000

Yes, I actually built the circuit (with-out the diode) see attached scope-shot: sorry for the blurry quality..........
Actually I was trying to nano-pulse SiC mosfets for another project, but the circuit does generate a variable ns pulse width.
This was only thrown together on a breadboard, so I do believe that the response / performance can be greatly improved over what I saw with my tests......

Take care, peace
lost_bro

EDIT:  forgot to mention that the output from Pin_10 is INVERTED logic, so  pin_10 must be connected to a Schmidt hex inverter.  The Hex Inverter output is the nano-second pulse width seen in the scope-shots below.

lost_bro

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10128 on: September 03, 2015, 05:43:19 PM »
  Hoppy:
   I've always had ferrite pieces in my grenade former tube, as that's how I tune the frequency. But, I've never had this type of intense overheating. It's seams that the Mazilli driver is fine, but there may be something wrong with the 28 turns on the yoke. As everything is fine until I connect up that coil to the grenade. Then the system is heavily loaded, even without a load from the bulbs.
  As this is a new 24v yoke coils system. There may be something wrong there, like possibly wrong winding direction, maybe.
 I wound the new yoke coils with the primary coil and 28 turns secondary coil, and the 3 turns coil (6 turns now), on this yoke ALL in a clockwise direction. But, my older 12v yoke coil was wound with the 3 turns coil opposite (CCW) the other two yoke coils which are CW.
  With of without ferrite tuning cores inside of the grenade, same thing, still the same amount of heat on the fets.
Actually, I have not been using the ferrite inside the grenade, at this time. So, it is not the cause of the heating.
 

Good day NickZ

Check for Cross-conduction (shoot-through) between your FETs.   If the drive signals overlap on the leading or trailing edges, that is a very bad sign............  even a small amount of X-conduction will overheat/burn up the fets very quickly, done there, been that.

take care, peace
lost_bro

Tomtech29

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10129 on: September 03, 2015, 10:27:18 PM »
Hi All.
Thanks lost_bro in response to the point "In regards to the  slow rising edge on the sg3525 generated waveform"
I was not sure why (and you're right on the lower frequencies)much better.

I do not know whether to use another driver change anything as the generator I have such a signal the measurement is no driver some are miserably looks
as you wrote that it can be cleaned! It even with this in their spare time after will prove quite interesting
I was wondering whether the finished system will not work the same:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PWM-Generator-Controller-Adjustable-Frequency-100-400kHz-SG3525-Module-arduino-/121263675145
because sometimes the cost of the components of this consignment knocks on his feet

while it decreased cycle such a signal as below:

lost_bro

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10130 on: September 03, 2015, 11:29:26 PM »
Hi All.
Thanks lost_bro in response to the point "In regards to the  slow rising edge on the sg3525 generated waveform"
I was not sure why (and you're right on the lower frequencies)much better.

I do not know whether to use another driver change anything as the generator I have such a signal the measurement is no driver some are miserably looks
as you wrote that it can be cleaned! It even with this in their spare time after will prove quite interesting
I was wondering whether the finished system will not work the same:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PWM-Generator-Controller-Adjustable-Frequency-100-400kHz-SG3525-Module-arduino-/121263675145
because sometimes the cost of the components of this consignment knocks on his feet

while it decreased cycle such a signal as below:

Good Day Tomtech29

Well, those waveforms look really bad!!!!!!!!!!

I recommend that you do NOT waste your money on the above posted link for the SG3525 module.  Already purchased it a while back.  Have attached the minimum, maximum frequency scope shot and a shot of 36kHz.

At very low frequency ie; 184Hz , the wave form is acceptable.........
At 36kHz, the wave form is usable for most purposes but still shows signs of loss of fidelity.
At top end frequency of 124kHz, the waveform is very sorry indeed. 
Using a mosfet driver with integrated Schmidt trigger, the wave form will be improved beyond recognition ( considering the sorry A$$ shape it was at the SG3525 module output).

I was/am disappointed with this SG3523 module;  Besides the fact that is has very poor response/nasty waveform at medium/fast frequencies,
It only has ONE output routed/connected to the pcb......

This module does not output *both* channels, so it CANNOT be used in a push-pull type XFRMR!!!!!!!!!!  Only one output, so it at best is just a simple PWM and it does a Sorry A$$ job at that.

For anytype of serious work, it is a bad joke. ;D

take care, peace
lost_bro

EDIT:   forgot to mention that the module does NOT output a frequency greater than 124kHz........ (No 400kHz on my module) one could spend time to change out the cap and/or resistor on the timing pin of the SG3525, but considering how nasty the output is at only 124kHz, there is no reason to even try.

EDIT#2:  probably this is due to the quality of the actual SG3525 used in this module, to be fair, *if* they had used a *real* SG3525 I.C. on the module then this might be a different story.  Generally you get what you pay for.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 01:43:07 AM by lost_bro »

Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10131 on: September 04, 2015, 09:56:28 AM »

I was/am disappointed with this SG3523 module;  Besides the fact that is has very poor response/nasty waveform at medium/fast frequencies,
It only has ONE output routed/connected to the pcb......

take care, peace
lost_bro


Well at least your two pots are not soldered-in wonky!  ;D


Tomtech29

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10132 on: September 04, 2015, 12:38:38 PM »
hi
How can you not much you have to learn I did not know that I would receive an honest answer Thank you.
- glad to hear that you are a person not indifferent and what you have to say is a proven and reliable command
I know now that there is not another pile of crap I bought recently such a small (Water Oil Diesel Fuel Transfer Pump) and it turned out that does not lead to the canister by the flange,
good sell just not practical hmm.
These pcb is as you say, what so cheap is "expensive" I thought that PWM is only one channel (I drove to the theme of kit because he was ready and cheap).
if they manage to find something else?

I read this post again Dog-One.
and I realize how much Work! you put into it, and the knowledge of the constructive Such simple solutions can not exist.
- But there is nothing disapointed I could learn something through

"Speaking from experience, I initially used a SG3524 which gave me full PWM (0 - 50% duty cycle) control and frequency (8 - 40kHz).  Connected to this chip I used a pair of 14 amp IXYS gate drivers and did the switching with a pair of IRFB3077 MOSFETs.  All seemed fine and dandy.  I could control frequency and power level no problem at all.  What I discovered driving the yoke (toroid) transformer with this circuit is that you really need to run the duty cycle pretty close to 50%.  You don't want to be at 50% with no dead time because the core will saturate and begin to draw mega amps.  If you run the duty cycle at say 20%, the wave form on the output side is not even close to a sine wave.  Rather, it's badly distorted.  The catch is when you run near 50% duty cycle you get a good sine wave on the output, but with the grenade and induction heater coils connected, you almost get a runaway condition on current draw.  It's very tricky to find the right value resonant capacitors to tame this current draw down, but if you get them, you'll see a nice sine wave and current draw will sit at about 5 amps powering a 60 watt incandescent bulb."

I will have to learn how to ask questions that do not know the answer it may sound strange. Thx

NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10133 on: September 04, 2015, 03:04:35 PM »
   Hoppy:
   The primary coil of my newly wound 24v yoke is wound with both primaries in the SAME direction. Could this be the cause of the problems.  Are they supposed to be wound in opposite directions? OR NOT?
   It looks like Ruslan's yoke primaries are wound in opposite directions. 

Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10134 on: September 04, 2015, 03:17:01 PM »
   Hoppy:
   The primary coil of my newly wound 24v yoke is wound with both primaries in the SAME direction. Could this be the cause of the problems.  Are they supposed to be in opposite directions? OR NOT?

Yes, that's OK. The winding should be continuous in direction from start to finish with a centre tap.

magpwr

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10135 on: September 04, 2015, 03:48:49 PM »
hi
How can you not much you have to learn I did not know that I would receive an honest answer Thank you.
- glad to hear that you are a person not indifferent and what you have to say is a proven and reliable command
I know now that there is not another pile of crap I bought recently such a small (Water Oil Diesel Fuel Transfer Pump) and it turned out that does not lead to the canister by the flange,
good sell just not practical hmm.
These pcb is as you say, what so cheap is "expensive" I thought that PWM is only one channel (I drove to the theme of kit because he was ready and cheap).
if they manage to find something else?

I read this post again Dog-One.
and I realize how much Work! you put into it, and the knowledge of the constructive Such simple solutions can not exist.
- But there is nothing disapointed I could learn something through

"Speaking from experience, I initially used a SG3524 which gave me full PWM (0 - 50% duty cycle) control and frequency (8 - 40kHz).  Connected to this chip I used a pair of 14 amp IXYS gate drivers and did the switching with a pair of IRFB3077 MOSFETs.  All seemed fine and dandy.  I could control frequency and power level no problem at all.  What I discovered driving the yoke (toroid) transformer with this circuit is that you really need to run the duty cycle pretty close to 50%.  You don't want to be at 50% with no dead time because the core will saturate and begin to draw mega amps.  If you run the duty cycle at say 20%, the wave form on the output side is not even close to a sine wave.  Rather, it's badly distorted.  The catch is when you run near 50% duty cycle you get a good sine wave on the output, but with the grenade and induction heater coils connected, you almost get a runaway condition on current draw.  It's very tricky to find the right value resonant capacitors to tame this current draw down, but if you get them, you'll see a nice sine wave and current draw will sit at about 5 amps powering a 60 watt incandescent bulb."

I will have to learn how to ask questions that do not know the answer it may sound strange. Thx

hi Tomtech29,

You may want to take a look at the BEMF(Between Drain-Source) once you approach close to 50% for one simple reason IRFB3077 Mosfet does have nice Rds on at 0.0033Ohms but supported voltage is mere 75volts max which kill the fun.

But hey i am nobody to teach about Electronics. ;)

Dog-One

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10136 on: September 04, 2015, 06:52:32 PM »
Yes, that's OK. The winding should be continuous in direction from start to finish with a centre tap.

You can also use bifilar (zip-cord) for ease of winding.  When you do this, the end of one winding connects to the start of the other winding--this is your center tap.  I've used both speaker wire and line cord this way; both work fine for this application.  Attached is an early wind I did before I knew to keep the two secondaries separated and the primary on top.  There is also a bifilar wound fine telephone wire secondary I attempted to use for the high voltage--don't try this though because even a slight load on it will push serious BEMF into your MOSFETs and smoke them.  Use a separate driver circuit and transformer for your high voltage.  T-1000 warned me of this but I had to try and prove it for myself.

TinselKoala

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10137 on: September 04, 2015, 07:05:32 PM »

AlienGrey

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10138 on: September 04, 2015, 07:10:31 PM »
It might seam to be a dumb question but what's the last couple of pages got to do with with getting Ruslans device working ? If your going to have a play group could you please start another thread, fanks fellers.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 09:40:46 PM by AlienGrey »

Dog-One

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #10139 on: September 04, 2015, 07:51:55 PM »
I'm sorry.

You should be.  That was a perfectly good alligator clip you destroyed.   :)