Cookies-law

Cookies help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
http://www.overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please leave this website now. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

Poplamp

poplamp

CCTool

CCTool

LEDTVforSale

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

OverUnity Book

overunity principles book

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 487626
  • *Total Topics: 14342
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 6
  • *Guests: 258
  • *Total: 264

Facebook

Author Topic: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY  (Read 4880491 times)

Offline itsu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1269
Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2012, 01:26:31 PM »
I would like to see your scopeshots of voltage between the ground and sources of your MOSFETs as well as the voltage on the power supply pins of the TL494 IC (measured from the same ground point).
Ideally the scope should show pure DC.


Verpies,

i am presently uploading a video about a new build (experimental PCB) generator.
I did severall measurements there, but not the ones you request (found out afterwards that my secondary seems shorted, so not sure they are valid).

The video will be ready in half an hour, and i will make your requested tests tonight.

By the way, "voltage between the ground and sources of your MOSFET" as the sources are connected to ground (well sort of as i have inserted 0.47 Ohm current sensor resistors) is that usefull?

Regards  Itsu
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2012, 01:26:31 PM »

Offline itsu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1269
Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #46 on: September 24, 2012, 01:57:55 PM »

@All,


After rebuilding my main generator on an experimenter PCB, i did some measurements again, showing mixed results.
The "current" looks OK to me, but the drain/output voltages still look spiky, however, at the end i found that i probably have a shorted secondary (220V side) on the used toroid.
Not sure if this renders these measurements useless, so perhaps kind of off topic, but i thought i put it up anyway


I agree with "Hoppy" that the used green toroid probably is a commercial one, so i also followed that route.
I have a small one on order, so for the time being will continue working on the nano pulser.

Video to be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZQT8mN0AtE

Thanks for your comments,  regards Itsu.


Offline Hoppy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3513
Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2012, 02:53:25 PM »
@All,


After rebuilding my main generator on an experimenter PCB, i did some measurements again, showing mixed results.
The "current" looks OK to me, but the drain/output voltages still look spiky, however, at the end i found that i probably have a shorted secondary (220V side) on the used toroid.
Not sure if this renders these measurements useless, so perhaps kind of off topic, but i thought i put it up anyway


I agree with "Hoppy" that the used green toroid probably is a commercial one, so i also followed that route.
I have a small one on order, so for the time being will continue working on the nano pulser.

Video to be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZQT8mN0AtE

Thanks for your comments,  regards Itsu.

Itsu,

The R & C timing components 10K & 1uF (1000nF) on the schematic should be providing an oscillation of around 100Hz if you look at the TL494 product graph. Your timing cap may be to low - what value are you using as it appears to be around 10nF for a 4700Hz output? The Dally inverter as I see it is primarily a low frequency (around 50Hz) 150V PSU., thus the iron cored transformer.

Regards
Hoppy

Offline itsu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1269
Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2012, 03:08:55 PM »

Hoppy,

the Dally generator to my understanding provides 2 functions, 1 as you said a 150/200V PSU for driving the nano pulser, but 2 to drive the L1 coil with around 4.6Khz square wave pulses at this 150/200V (supposedly the double of the 2.3Khz at which hydrogen atoms spin??!!)

So therefor the generator needs to run at around 4.6Khz, and not 100/50Hz.

Correct me if i am wrong.

Regards  Itsu.


Offline Vortex1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 502
Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2012, 03:17:55 PM »
Itsu

I assume the mains transformer you are using (in reverse) is probably not a ferrite core, rather it is a iron alloy tapewound. As such it was probably ok at 50 to 60 Hz, but may have significant core loss (eddy current) at 4.6kHz.

Most transformers used in these TL494 and equiv. circuits use ferrite cores to allow high frequency power transfer without significant core loss. Also excess interwinding capacitance coupling is probably causing some nuisance spikes to appear, as this would not be so noticeable at 50 /60 Hz.

You may get better results using ferrite transformers used in the power supply from old video monitors or PC computers or wind your own.

Your Zeners are burning out because it is a push pull arrangement, and as such the not driven winding will see a voltage 2X the supply voltage when the opposite winding is switched to ground. If the Zeners are not rated at least 2X the supply voltage, they can start to absorb energy.

The Zeners should not be required if you use a good ferrite transformer wound for low leakage inductance, and by all means keep a reasonable load on the secondary so that it can help damp any primary spiking.

55 kOhms may be too high (0.88 Watts @220V). A more reasonable load to help damp the primary would be in the 5 watt range like 10 kOhm.

Thanks for sharing your work.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2012, 03:17:55 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Black_Bird

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 81
Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2012, 03:39:04 PM »
@itsu
You are using a push-pull configuration. When one of the output mos fets is saturated, the other is cut off. Then the voltage at the drain of the cut off fet will be double of the power supply, in your case it will be around 24Volts. The Zener diodes should be a little bit over that, let's say 26 to 28Volts.

Offline itsu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1269
Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2012, 03:53:58 PM »

Vortex1,

Hmmm,  obviously there seems to be a flaw in my understanding of toroid cores.
I thought they always are made of ferrite and therefor are suitable for higher then 50Hz frequencies.
Apparently not,  thanks.

Now i understand the reasoning from Hoppy.

So need to know if the generator needs to run on 50/100Hz or at 4.6Khz, then we either can use the route suggested by Hoppy (commercial toroid 50Hz), or we need to build one on ferrite suitable for 4.6Khz.

But the fact that my toroid get very hot in seconds when running on 220V 50Hz still points to a defect in it.


Black_Bird,  Vortex1,

Concerning the zeners; so that's clear then why they became hot :-)  i will try higher voltage rated zeners across each MOSFET if still needed after using a good toroid.

Thanks for your comments,    Regards Itsu


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2012, 03:53:58 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Hoppy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3513
Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2012, 05:30:29 PM »
Hoppy,

the Dally generator to my understanding provides 2 functions, 1 as you said a 150/200V PSU for driving the nano pulser, but 2 to drive the L1 coil with around 4.6Khz square wave pulses at this 150/200V (supposedly the double of the 2.3Khz at which hydrogen atoms spin??!!)

So therefor the generator needs to run at around 4.6Khz, and not 100/50Hz.

Correct me if i am wrong.

Regards  Itsu.


Itsu,

The winding turns look wrong to me even for a ferrite core running at 4.6Kz and the transformer symbol does indicate an iron core, so its all a bit confusing and quite possible that errors have crept into the schematic.

I'm building the Dally circuit as at least for this we have good winding info and photos for the main coil and a fairly good indication that he used an iron cored transformer. I've currently completed the inverter and nano pulser co-ax driver and will start the VCO and nano pulser next.

Hoppy

Offline Black_Bird

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 81
Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2012, 05:43:20 PM »
@itsu
The toroidal is not a must. You can use an EI or EE ferrite core to make the transformer for the voltage converter. I made one, myself, using an E424215 ferrite core, and used in the primary 4+4 turns of 4 wires in parallel AWG 26, to avoid losses and the secondaries used 70 turns each AWG 26. The difference is that it operates at a much higher frequency, around 60 KHz, and, in my case, I used a simple 2 transistor converter with base feedback coils. Output in each of the 70 turn windings is around 200V. Curent input at 12v is around 1.7A. AL for the core is 4000 nH/turn2.

Offline Hoppy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3513
Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2012, 06:27:40 PM »
Its interesting that one of the inverter windings is one leg down to earth ground, which according to Dally is essential for operation. This winding is also in series with the main coil winding L1, which in turn receives induced pulses from the nano-pulser. This arrangement is similar to the concept of 'chaos' introduced to a 50Hz transformer, as is being discussed in the other thread. I remember reading somewhere that TK uses a 50Hz transformer based inverter, so there could well be some similarity in the modus-operandi.

Hoppy

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2012, 06:27:40 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Vortex1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 502
Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2012, 07:27:49 PM »
Vortex1,

Hmmm,  obviously there seems to be a flaw in my understanding of toroid cores.
I thought they always are made of ferrite and therefor are suitable for higher then 50Hz frequencies.
Apparently not,  thanks.

Now i understand the reasoning from Hoppy.

So need to know if the generator needs to run on 50/100Hz or at 4.6Khz, then we either can use the route suggested by Hoppy (commercial toroid 50Hz), or we need to build one on ferrite suitable for 4.6Khz.

But the fact that my toroid get very hot in seconds when running on 220V 50Hz still points to a defect in it.


Black_Bird,  Vortex1,

Concerning the zeners; so that's clear then why they became hot :-)  i will try higher voltage rated zeners across each MOSFET if still needed after using a good toroid.

Thanks for your comments,    Regards Itsu

Yes, many toroidal cores for mains 50/60 use are tapewound  alloys utilizing grain oriented steel for low eddy current loss.

If your transformer runs hot off the mains, it could be a short as you say, or it could have been designed for lower line voltage like 208 and is saturating. Does it have an input rating tag? You can test it by putting a resistor ( one ohm ) in series with the core and running it up slowly on a Variac while observing the current waveform across the one ohm. Also observe the secondary voltage, and see that it is a nice sine wave. If it is extremely distorted or does not reflect the rated turns ratio, it is probably shorted or saturating very early.

You are correct that 4.6 kHz (assuming a ferrite core) should be the operating frequency, not 50 or 60 Hz.

Best of luck.

Offline T-1000

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1465
Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #56 on: September 24, 2012, 10:19:11 PM »
Video to be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZQT8mN0AtE

Thanks for your comments,  regards Itsu.

Thanks for the try itsu.
The originial circuit http://img1.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/c/6/91/496/91496155_large_TL494Generator.JPG got E13009 NPN transistors on output and I suspect there is sine wave on push-pull output. Also you have MOSFETs on output and in this case you need to make sure they are not half-open when TL generator is not connected. Also when the generator is connected you may have race condition problem with flipping over between then and if that is the case, you may get lots of amps consumed. Also there is lots of amps consumed if your primary on toroid has too low impedance.

The main inverter circuit is quite standard there and the main process is making realtionship between 2 secondaries when 1kV 1nS sharp triangle pulse generator is working in sync comming from inverter TL circuit:
http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/c/6/91/488/91488162_large_Dally.JPG

The list of Russian parts:
The SN7400 is analog for KR155LA3 - http://partnumber.ru/product_info.php/products_id/15080
КД203 - http://radioelectronic.ru/diody-kd203/ (max back voltage 600V, max frequency 1kHz, max amperage 10A)
КТ926 - http://lampilich.narod.ru/tr/b_big/kt926.html , http://www.betatvcom.dn.ua/komplekt/pdf/active_comp/tranzistorSVH/KT.pdf (NPN, max C-E impulse voltage 200V, DC=150V, Imax impulse = 15A, Imax DC=15A, h21e = 10-60,Pmax = 60W, fmax = >51Mhz)

P.S. You need to see if you got 2 primaries right. They should go into opposite winding directions. Otherwise it will be plain DC short circuit with same polarity when one goes off and second goes on.

Cheers!


Offline verpies

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3402
Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #57 on: September 24, 2012, 10:31:52 PM »
@Itsu
Here are several of my observations regarding your latest video (I watched only half of it):

1) You probably already know that transformers do not transform DC.
A transformer "transforms" only when the current changes through its primary winding.  However your drain current waveforms show significant amount of their time spent along the flat top of the pulses (flat means DC!). 
During those "flat tops" you are only burning energy in resistances!  None of that electrical energy is going into changing the transformer's magnetic field, thus none of it is getting transformed and none of it appears at the secondary winding (output).
You are way way past point D in the yellow trace IL of my Reply #29 and you should not be much past point C (or even better B). 
You must decrease your pulse width or increase your frequency or increase the inductance of your primary windings.

2) The determination of the proper "phasing" of the push-pull primary windings (yellow  & blue) can be done like that:  Apply 230V AC to the red secondary winding of your transformer (this would be the primary winding if operated as intended originally, like a step-down transformer). Next, connect your two yellow and blue primaries in series (originally intended as 10V AC secondaries) and measure them with an AC voltmeter.  If your resulting voltage is double that (20V AC), then you have them connected correctly.  If not - break the red vinyl tape and make an alternate series connection by switching one yellow wire for another yellow wire (don't switch both yellow and blue wires at the same time!).

3) I did not realize that sources of your MOSFETs are connected to ground.  Since they apparently are, make sure that the voltage between the MOSFET sources and the Vcc, is pure DC.  Vcc is the point where the two primary transformer windings join together - I think you have a red vinyl tape there over yellow and blue wires joined together.  If it is not pure DC then bypass these points with low-ESR capacitors.  Also since your sources are connected to ground, then put your current sensing resistors on the drains of your MOSFETs in order not to perturb your source-to-gate voltages, and measure the drain currents across these resistors.

4) The Zener diodes should conduct only during the "dead time".  Putting  a scope probe across a Zener diode will tell you when the voltage across it is approaching its Zener voltage.

5) The cores of commercial toroidal transformers used for halogen lighting are wound using ~0.5mm thick silicon steel tape in a tight spiral pattern.  This tape is conductive and will develop significant eddy currents at high frequencies.  What is "high" depends on the thickness of that tape and insulation between the layers of the spiral core.  A torroid is only a shape and not all toroids are made out of ferrite.  Some cores are even made out of Nanoperm tape (~0.05mm) which is not all that expensive and has fantastic permeability, high resistance and can operate up to 100s of kHz - a good alternative to ferrites at those frequencies.  But don't despair I have seen these regular silicon steel-tape transformers operate at 90kHz in an audio amplifier output stage without any problems (see the attached picture of my vintage amplifier project built with those transformers)


I'll watch the rest of your video soon.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 01:20:50 AM by verpies »

Offline Hoppy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3513
Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #58 on: September 24, 2012, 11:32:56 PM »
Thanks for the try itsu.

The main inverter circuit is quite standard there and the main process is making realtionship between 2 secondaries when 1kV 1nS sharp triangle pulse generator is working in sync comming from inverter TL circuit:
http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/c/6/91/488/91488162_large_Dally.JPG


Cheers!

T-1000,

I'm confused about the above sentence. To me it reads that the inverter circuit is producing 1KV 1nS pulses. As I commented earlier, with the R & C component values shown (10K & 1uF), the frequency from the TL494 will be around 100Hz. The Dally schematic will work up to around 500Hz with the 1uF, 22K pot and 10K fixed resistor shown.

Hoppy


Offline Vortex1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 502
Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2012, 01:31:37 AM »
Hoppy is right. If that capacitor is truly 1000nF, the frequency will be low as he stated, which means a low frequency mains transformer will work fine.

Is it then the comb pulse generator (nano pulser) that is running at about 4.6 kHz repetition rate?

Verpies:

Do you have more info on your tube amp? I'm a hobbyist builder of tube amps and always wondered how well mains transformers would work as output transformers but have not had time to try it. would be very interested in your test results but do not want to derail this thread. Is your work posted anywhere?



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2012, 01:31:37 AM »

 

Share this topic to your favourite Social and Bookmark site

Please SHARE this topic at: