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Author Topic: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY  (Read 5751823 times)

Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17415 on: June 14, 2017, 06:27:43 PM »
  Pin #8, 11, and 12 are getting 12v. Through the 12v voltage regulators and filters. Clean signal at the gates, no signals at the drains. I'm going to look into this later today.
 
  EDIT: Check the current pic of the drivers, in my last previous post. I just added it.

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17415 on: June 14, 2017, 06:27:43 PM »

Online itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17416 on: June 14, 2017, 06:36:47 PM »
  Itsu:
  What I have noticed in last nights testing was that the TL494 works fine through out the frequency ranges while the duty cycle is at full duty, or nearly full duty cycle. But still showing at least 4.5v output at pin 9 or 10. If by adjusting one or both controllers the voltage drops below 4.5v, at those pins, the signal messes up. And the best working voltages readings from the 9 and 10 pin is between 5.2v down to 4.5v, but no less than 4.5.  It can't handle getting less than 4.5v to those two pins, 9 and 10, without messing up.
   Any ideas on what to do about that?

   The device is now running on 24v from my PSU, to the yoke and through it's filters and choke coil to the yoke center tap.
   The separate filtered 12v is going to the TL chip, and filtered 15v is going to the UC4420 drivers.
   The Yoke is connected now, to the fets, and is receiving the filtered 24v input to it at the center tap.
   Earth ground is in the STAR formation. 
   Fets are staying stone cold, but no bulbs are lighting on 3t or 28t yoke coil.   
   I still don't know why that's like that. So, I'm looking into it.


Nick,

so you run the TL494 at +12V to pins 12, 11 and 8.

At it lowest frequency setting (12Khz at my setup) and max. duty cycle setting (44% at my setup) my Fluke DMM at the DC Voltage setting shows 4.7V when measuring pin 10 output
compared to ground.   This is the rms value of the 44% pulsed square wave (11.7Vpp) on pin 10.

When reducing the duty cycle this DDM measured value goes down which is logical as the rms value drops.
It however never "messes up".

Please show a video when you see this "messing up" taking place, have the DDM hooked up and a scope to the same pin.
Try to retrigger the scope when any "messing up" appears.

Video here:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdTbmPMYZqM

Concerning the snubbers, it seem to me you have no snubbers installed right now, the two 1k resistors at the gates and 4 facing zeners are no snubbers like TK already
mentioned, and the two MUR1530 are merely aiding the internal diode in the MOSFETs.
Snubber components are installed at the drains of the MOSFETs

Regards Itsu
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 10:28:20 PM by itsu »

Online itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17417 on: June 14, 2017, 10:57:47 PM »
Good day Itsu

Yes, I have also  thought about Ruslan's statement referring to the Grenade as a 1/2 wave antenna @ 4Mhz.

While a Half Wave antenna can be a *center fed dipole*, a Helical spiral wound single layer resonator (in Free Space) has also been shown to exhibit a Self Resonance  Frequency  (Fres) equal to approx Lambda/2.  (See attached doc.)  This is in *Free Space* so of course no ground is connected.  Likewise, I remember Ruslan testing the Fres of his grenade coil when it was NOT connected to ground and effectively isolated from the rest of the system.

Conversely, when a Helical spiral wound single layer resonator has one *end* connected to a ground plane, the Fres responds by *shifting* to the Lambda/4 resonant point. ie; Tesla Coil............
This is also covered in the attached doc.

"1) A free coil, i.e., a coil without connections, has its fundamental resonance when the wire length is λ/2 (where λ is the electrical wavelength). When one end of the coil is connected to an infinite ground plane, the fundamental SRF occurs when the conductor length is λ/4. The removal of the impedance discontinuity at one end effectively doubles the length of the single-conductor transmission line."

"When an impedance is connected in parallel with a coil, the impedance terminates the transmission line. The coil behaves as a short-circuited two-wire line of half its conductor length, which is the same as a one-wire transmission line of length equal to its conductor length. A two wire line presents a high impedance at its terminals when its electrical length is λ/4, i.e., when the length of the wire in it is λ/2.

Thus when the line is resonated against a variable reference capacitor, the data extrapolated to zero capacitance point to the λ/2 wire length resonance (provided that the test frequency is not too close to the SRF). This is true regardless of whether or not one terminal of the coil is grounded, because the ground is not involved in resonating the coil. That grounding one end of the coil has very little effect on the parallel resonance of an LC network is easily verified by removing and replacing the ground connection (the small changes that do occur are due to stray capacitance)."

and

"The lowest self-resonance in the presence of a ground-plane occurs at approximately half the frequency of the parallel-resonant SRF. It cannot however be excited in the absence of a ground plane because it is the fundamental series self-resonance; i.e., a generator can only deliver energy to an impedance, and so a counterpoise is required to complete the circuit if the coil is to be seriesdriven.
Note however, that it is possible to excite multiple-internal-reflection resonances at approximate sub-multiples of the SRF25 (sometimes called sub-harmonics). One of these will be close to the lowest series resonance, but it will have a different field pattern."

In short, I find  the cited information interesting, because it does *support* Ruslan's claim of a *Free Space* lambda/2 @ 4Mhz for the grenade.  And you are correct when you mention that when *grounded* the Fres is much lower, ie; it should in theory be 1/2 of the Lambda/2 Free Space Fres == Lambda/4, which would put a Lambda/2 of 4Mhz
at 2Mhz when at Lambda/4, which is close to your 1.8xxMhz (factoring in phase velocity propagation delay) .

I like the looks of the spectrogram of the *new grenade* configuration that you posted today.  Looks to have a 16dBm or greater S/N (signal/noise) sensitivity over the next  closest resonant peak.

take care, peace
lost_bro


Hi LB,

thanks for the info and PDF, very nice data.

I measured my Grenade like i would measure an antenna using my SA and VSWR bridge.
Range from 9KHz to 20MHz, see the screenshot below.

The advantage is that one side of the coil is grounded, like it suppose to be in the Ruslan setup.
A whole new range of resonance points pops up  this way.

For what its worth,   video here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqne9EesB9A

I will now wind an inductor (half length = 18.25m) in a bifilar way around the grenades lower part to check out its influence.


Regards Itsu

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17418 on: June 15, 2017, 09:08:15 AM »
  Pin #8, 11, and 12 are getting 12v. Through the 12v voltage regulators and filters. Clean signal at the gates, no signals at the drains. I'm going to look into this later today.
 
  EDIT: Check the current pic of the drivers, in my last previous post. I just added it.

You will have no signal at the Drains unless the load and its power are connected.
Then when load and its supply power are connected and the mosfet is OFF, the Drain voltage (referenced to Source) will be at the supply voltage, and when the mosfet is ON the Drain-Source voltage will drop to zero or just barely above zero.

I strongly recommend getting rid of the series resistor between the 494's pins 9 and 10 outputs and the pin 2 inputs of the 4420s. With a 1k pulldown _and_ a 1k series resistor you are effectively halving the voltage delivered to the 4420's signal input. The 4420 has internal zeners protecting the input, so you can drive it with the full 12 volt (or just under) from the 494's Emitter outputs. Just use the 1k pulldowns, without any series resistors between the 494 and the 4420s.

Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17419 on: June 15, 2017, 03:51:41 PM »
  TK:
  I had previously installed two 10 ohm resistors from pin 9 and 10 to the fet drivers. But, those two resistors did not help, nor work any better.
  As I had mentioned in the previous post, the yoke IS connected. The power (24v, 10A) is ON to yoke, and the yoke is connected to the mosfets, their drivers, and the TL circuit. A load is on the yoke secondary 28t coil, a 10w, or 100w bulb. Makes no difference what bulb I load it with.
 
   Last night I changed the 20k pot on the duty cycle controller to a brand new 50k pot. But, the signals still mess up when the output pins 9, 10 show they are getting less than 4.5v. Signals are ok with 4.5 to 5v. Maximum voltage output from the 9 and 10 pins is 5.2v.
  So, the 20k pot that I thought may be damaged. It's not damaged.

   Seams like the driver inputs from the TL circuit need at least 4.5v. Or, something else is not right.
  I'll remove the 1k resistor to the drivers pin 2 and 3 today, and report back.

   What does seam to help somewhat, is grounding both of the grounds, from the TL, as well as from the drivers to earth ground.
That helps to control the glitches, to some degree, but it still does it, just not as bad.

   So, what Itsu and you are saying is that the diagrams used by Stalker showing the same system of NO snubbers on the drains, except for the MUR's, are not correct??
  I previously did not notice any spikes at all, or hardly any, when the system was working.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17419 on: June 15, 2017, 03:51:41 PM »
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Offline Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17420 on: June 15, 2017, 04:19:23 PM »

   So, what Itsu and you are saying is that the diagrams used by Stalker showing the same system of NO snubbers on the drains, except for the MUR's, are not correct??

Its not a case of being correct or not to fit snubbers, as none of us know whether they are needed to produce a self-runner. A chaotic signal may be necessary - who knows for sure?? It may be that none of the circuits so far posted are correct for self-running.


Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17421 on: June 15, 2017, 04:31:39 PM »
  Agreed.
  But, my problem for now is not the spikes. It's the no output issue, and messy signals, instead. The device will not fire up, even when the scope is showing nice clean signals.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17421 on: June 15, 2017, 04:31:39 PM »
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Offline Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17422 on: June 15, 2017, 04:54:12 PM »
  Agreed.
  But, my problem for now is not the spikes. It's the no output issue, and messy signals, instead. The device will not fire up, even when the scope is showing nice clean signals.

Are you saying that you have no output at all now, irrespective of frequency and DC adjustments? Did you test the mosfets in accordance with the info posted by me and Verpies?

Offline zalmoxis

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17423 on: June 15, 2017, 06:15:20 PM »
tune your coils and resonance like this .. : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_6dW11SodE
pay attention at the bulb filament

Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17424 on: June 15, 2017, 08:42:01 PM »
Are you saying that you have no output at all now, irrespective of frequency and DC adjustments? Did you test the mosfets in accordance with the info posted by me and Verpies?

  Yes, both Fets are new now. And they tested ok.  I'll see if I can find another new one, but I doubt that I have any more around here.
  I also just replaced the 20k duty cycle pot, for a 50k pot. No difference, signals still mess up.
  Here is a video I just posted on YT:
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUZxyuzfYHA

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17424 on: June 15, 2017, 08:42:01 PM »
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Online itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17425 on: June 15, 2017, 11:01:00 PM »

Nick,

what frequency range of your TL494 are we talking about?    Show the scope time base setting so we can calculate if you don't know.

Loose the DMM across the TL494 pins, its not designed to work on high frequency (KHz) dc pulses, my Fluke seriously distords the output signal when connected, see my latest video.
Just look at your scope, and when the messing up appears, try to resync using your scope trigger setting knob to establish a steady signal again.

What is your C4 capacitor value (1nF as in pinoytech design?)


When frequency set at 20Khz @ max duty cycle (44%) and at 12V input voltage i have the following voltages on the TL494 pins (measured using the scope):

1:  ground lvl
2:  +5V
3:  ground lvl
4:  ground lvl
5:  3.7Vpp sawtooth signal
6:  +3.7V
7:  ground lvl
8:  +12V
9:  pulsed +12V @ 44% duty cycle
10: pulsed +12V @ 44% duty cycle
11: +12V
12: +12V
13: +5V
14: +5V
15: +5V
16: ground lvl


Itsu

Offline NickZ

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17426 on: June 16, 2017, 01:24:31 AM »
   If your TL494 is not wired like the Pinoy diagram, we may not have the same signals at the same pins.
   But, my el cheapo volt meter seams to be able to read the output at pin 9 and 10 with no problem. If there is no signal, I get no voltages across it, or pin 4. But, if there is a signal there on the 9, 10 pins, it ranges from 5.2v down to 4.5v without glitches.
   The duty cycle runs ok at maximum 44% or close to it, and the frequency runs at the highest setting, or close to the highest setting. So, that is where I can get a signal. Probably not at 20KHz, or where I need really it to run at. 5Khz to 30Khz, or so.
   But, still NO output, at all. It does seam as if one or both fets are fried, but they haven't even had a chance to even burp, yet. And I also had re-checked these new fets yesterday. When I saw that there is nothing coming out at the yoke's secondary coils, from the 3t, or 28t coil.

   My voltages are somewhat different, but I'd rather not have to do all the math on each pin of the TL chip, if connecting the scope. I'll show the full scope reading and setting, next video.
   I had ordered a new multi-meter that can also read frequency. But, the small one you see is in the video was what was brought to me this time, from the US. Next time I'll get the one I asked for, I hope. You know that doing the math is not my thing.
Rather be fishing...

   The voltages on pin 2 will vary from about 10v down to 0v, if I wait for the 50v 4.7uf cap to totally discharge.
    The scope directly on the TL pin 9 and 10, and ground, show just the same thing as what I showed on my video, when showing both scope probes on the gates of the fets.
    PIN  #1  ground.
           #2  10v down to 0v
           #3   0.v
           #4   0.69v
           #5,  1.62v strange scope signal
           #6,  3.56v
           #7,  ground
           #8,  11.98v
           #9,  1.18v to 5.2v sometimes, depending...
           #10, same as pin 9
           #11, 11.98v
           #12,  11,98v
           #13, 14, 15,  4.6v
           #16  ground.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 03:33:41 AM by NickZ »

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17427 on: June 16, 2017, 08:15:18 AM »
   But, still NO output, at all. It does seam as if one or both fets are fried, but they haven't even had a chance to even burp, yet. And I also had re-checked these new fets yesterday. When I saw that there is nothing coming out at the yoke's secondary coils, from the 3t, or 28t coil.


But, did you test them properly as suggested by Verpies and me??

Offline Pinoy_Tech

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17428 on: June 16, 2017, 11:15:44 AM »
   If your TL494 is not wired like the Pinoy diagram, we may not have the same signals at the same pins.
   But, my el cheapo volt meter seams to be able to read the output at pin 9 and 10 with no problem. If there is no signal, I get no voltages across it, or pin 4. But, if there is a signal there on the 9, 10 pins, it ranges from 5.2v down to 4.5v without glitches.
   The duty cycle runs ok at maximum 44% or close to it, and the frequency runs at the highest setting, or close to the highest setting. So, that is where I can get a signal. Probably not at 20KHz, or where I need really it to run at. 5Khz to 30Khz, or so.
   But, still NO output, at all. It does seam as if one or both fets are fried, but they haven't even had a chance to even burp, yet. And I also had re-checked these new fets yesterday. When I saw that there is nothing coming out at the yoke's secondary coils, from the 3t, or 28t coil.

   My voltages are somewhat different, but I'd rather not have to do all the math on each pin of the TL chip, if connecting the scope. I'll show the full scope reading and setting, next video.
   I had ordered a new multi-meter that can also read frequency. But, the small one you see is in the video was what was brought to me this time, from the US. Next time I'll get the one I asked for, I hope. You know that doing the math is not my thing.
Rather be fishing...

   The voltages on pin 2 will vary from about 10v down to 0v, if I wait for the 50v 4.7uf cap to totally discharge.
    The scope directly on the TL pin 9 and 10, and ground, show just the same thing as what I showed on my video, when showing both scope probes on the gates of the fets.
    PIN  #1  ground.
           #2  10v down to 0v
           #3   0.v
           #4   0.69v
           #5,  1.62v strange scope signal
           #6,  3.56v
           #7,  ground
           #8,  11.98v
           #9,  1.18v to 5.2v sometimes, depending...
           #10, same as pin 9
           #11, 11.98v
           #12,  11,98v
           #13, 14, 15,  4.6v
           #16  ground.


- Sorry if I'm not around for quite sometime. I been in Phil for vacation and lots of things done during that time.
  I'm working abroad and no chance to do actual diy projects due to limited source of spare parts from the place
  where I am working with, (at least almost 3 decades now he he).  [size=78%] [/size]
[size=78%]  [/size]
- You're asking me if I already tried to build the ckt. Just a bit on the stage of the pwm which is the 494 chip.
  About few combinations I've already done during the past and I can say that chip is a bit diy friendly. If we
  familiarized all of its pins then we can optimized its function. However, the circuit can be simplified to easily
  achieved its normal operation.


I'm posting the schematic diagram of what I have drawn (the pwm which you claimed you are following through)
plus the block diagram portion taken from its 494 datasheet.


Let us do it in different breakdown on the pin combinations;
 
 - pin 12 is for (+) power supply, no matter what it takes it should receive supply --> in that case +12V
 - pin 7 is for ic's power ground


 - then pin 14 must have a CVS of 5V, no matter what happen that 5V must always be there. If it drops by any
   means, there must be something wrong! Probably its load or the chip alone.
 
 - pins 1, 2, 3, 15, & 16 are for error amp 1 and error amp 2 and they are not being used, but their inputs
   must be wired-up to make their outputs to stay low. Thus pin 3 is secured to maintain logic "0". [/size][size=78%] [/size]
[size=78%] [/size][size=78%]  [/size]
 - pins 5 & 6 are just for the local oscillator and can be manipulated their values to meet the requirements for
   any target operating frequency. Thus VR2 is there for that purpose.
 
- pin 4, this is one of the good features on this chip that there is a built-in dead-time control. Thus duty cycle
  can be manipulated by not hooking the feedback voltage from the finished product output of the entire smps.
  We can say that this pwm chip can work as a stand alone pwm control compare to other pwm ic's that required
  to hook signals from its pwm output in order to have a controllable pwm. If somebody have already done experiments
  on this, sure he can easily understand what I mean.


 - pin 13 is just only for logic controlled NAND gate and is connected to pin 14 to have a constant logic 1.


 - pins 8, 9, 10, & 11 are for output stages and those transistors are configured as an emitter follower. Pins 8 & 11
   are directly hook-up from main Vcc while pins 9 & 10 are the outputs. PWM outputs can be practically calculated
   by --> (Vin * duty cycle). Your reading at Dmax seems to be ok; 12V*44% duty = 5.28V


 - C2 is added for soft-start purposes, we can choose our own value.

[size=78%] [/size][size=78%]   [/size]

*** of course pict below are just to show that the pwm circuit I made is working... and for the pcb tracing, i always
  considered policy that there must be no room for error because i'm always do cad command from sch to brd linking..   














Online itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17429 on: June 16, 2017, 11:23:54 AM »
   If your TL494 is not wired like the Pinoy diagram, we may not have the same signals at the same pins.
   But, my el cheapo volt meter seams to be able to read the output at pin 9 and 10 with no problem. If there is no signal, I get no voltages across it, or pin 4. But, if there is a signal there on the 9, 10 pins, it ranges from 5.2v down to 4.5v without glitches.
   The duty cycle runs ok at maximum 44% or close to it, and the frequency runs at the highest setting, or close to the highest setting. So, that is where I can get a signal. Probably not at 20KHz, or where I need really it to run at. 5Khz to 30Khz, or so.
   But, still NO output, at all. It does seam as if one or both fets are fried, but they haven't even had a chance to even burp, yet. And I also had re-checked these new fets yesterday. When I saw that there is nothing coming out at the yoke's secondary coils, from the 3t, or 28t coil.

   My voltages are somewhat different, but I'd rather not have to do all the math on each pin of the TL chip, if connecting the scope. I'll show the full scope reading and setting, next video.
   I had ordered a new multi-meter that can also read frequency. But, the small one you see is in the video was what was brought to me this time, from the US. Next time I'll get the one I asked for, I hope. You know that doing the math is not my thing.
Rather be fishing...

   The voltages on pin 2 will vary from about 10v down to 0v, if I wait for the 50v 4.7uf cap to totally discharge.
    The scope directly on the TL pin 9 and 10, and ground, show just the same thing as what I showed on my video, when showing both scope probes on the gates of the fets.
    PIN  #1  ground.
           #2  10v down to 0v
           #3   0.v
           #4   0.69v
           #5,  1.62v strange scope signal
           #6,  3.56v
           #7,  ground
           #8,  11.98v
           #9,  1.18v to 5.2v sometimes, depending...
           #10, same as pin 9
           #11, 11.98v
           #12,  11,98v
           #13, 14, 15,  4.6v
           #16  ground.


Nick,

I build up my TL494 according to the Pinoy_tech layout / diagram i presented here:
http://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/msg507286/#msg507286

If you have the same (which you confirmed), then we have the same circuit layouts.


Your el cheapo DMM will read a voltage, i am sure, but it won't be accuate above its specified frequency,
see its manual.

A DMM that can read frequency does NOT mean that it will show the correct voltage levels at high frequencies.
The max. frequency specs for voltage may be way lower than what the build in frequency meter can handle.
Use your scope to measure high frequency signals.


In my and your TL494 setup, pins 2 and 13 and 14 and 15 are solidly connected together.
Pin 14 is the internal 5V regulator output, so all those 4 pins should have a solid +5V!!

So i don't understand you are able to read "10v down to 0V" on pin 2, it should have a solid +5V


Pin 5 is the internal oscilator and should show a nice sawtooth signal, see the TL494 data sheet on page 8
(Voltage on CT).


Itsu

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Re: Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY
« Reply #17429 on: June 16, 2017, 11:23:54 AM »

 

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