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# New Book

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### Author Topic: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?  (Read 379925 times)

#### ltseung888

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4363
##### Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #1065 on: June 20, 2013, 01:19:26 AM »
As I have shown, the noise voltage measured on the scope for the current waveforms does not reflect the actual currents in the circuit when the current magnitudes are well down into the noise level. As the input voltage drops, the current draw is getting lower and lower, so it wouldn't be surprising that the rate of discharge for a battery or a super cap will slow down quite a bit as the input voltage drops into the low range. When the input voltage falls below about .4 volts or so, the power dissipation of the JT circuit is getting quite low, so the power drain on a battery or a super cap will be very little in this operating range.

One experiment you could do to try to determine if ambient noise pickup is having any effect on circuit performance is to decide on an exact circuit configuration and starting input voltage setting such as 20F super caps set to say 0.4V, and then time how long it takes for the LED to turn off in a location with less ambient noise compared to a location with noticeably higher ambient electrical noise. You would have to accurately measure the input starting voltage with a scope or decent multimeter for the test to be valid however. You would probably want to make a least a few test runs at each location to get an indication of how consistent the discharge times are for the same location and same circuit configuration and input voltage. You would want to keep the circuit board away from devices that generate a strong EM field like power supplies that have large power transformers or switch mode power supplies, etc., as we know that devices that have fairly strong EM fields around them will definitely affect the circuit performance. This assumes you are interested in trying to determine the effects of the ambient electrical noise level on circuit performance and not the effect of stronger EM fields that can be generated by certain electronics devices. Just to clarify, I make a distinction between the ambient electrical noise level that exists when one is not close to any electronics devices that have a strong EM field around them, and stronger EM fields that can be encountered around or close to certain types of electronics devices, or AC power lines, etc. No doubt stronger EM fields could very well have some impact on the JT circuit performance, and as we know such stronger EM fields could make the LED light without any power applied to the circuit. I wouldn't call such stronger EM fields 'ambient electrical noise' however.
@Void,
See the waveforms at the home of Mr. Lau.  Even the Input Voltage showed sharp spikes.....

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #1065 on: June 20, 2013, 01:19:26 AM »

#### Void

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1836
##### Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #1066 on: June 20, 2013, 09:49:33 PM »
@Void,
See the waveforms at the home of Mr. Lau.  Even the Input Voltage showed sharp spikes.....

Hi Lawrence. It would appear that you are either not reading my comments to you in this regard or you are not understanding much of what I am saying, so I won't bother to keep repeating myself regarding the difference between ambient noise and stronger sources of EM fields, and in regards to how 'measuring' a significant noise voltage waveform across the current sensing resistor will not translate to an increase in actual load current when the noise voltage level is high compared to the output current. Also, without knowing the exact details of what you did in your test, it would not be possible to comment. However, I wish you luck with your experiments with trying to use ambient electrical noise and EM fields, etc. to try to power a JT circuit.

Regarding using stronger EM fields, in a test I did I was able to light an unpowered JT board LED quite brightly just by feeding a coil of wire with my low power signal generator and holding it near the JT board coils. The transistor doesn't appear to operate at all in this case however, and the power transfer to the LED appears to be mainly through magnetic induction between the external and JT collector coil.

#### ltseung888

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4363
##### Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #1067 on: June 21, 2013, 12:18:10 AM »

Hi Lawrence. It would appear that you are either not reading my comments to you in this regard or you are not understanding much of what I am saying, so I won't bother to keep repeating myself regarding the difference between ambient noise and stronger sources of EM fields, and in regards to how 'measuring' a significant noise voltage waveform across the current sensing resistor will not translate to an increase in actual load current when the noise voltage level is high compared to the output current. Also, without knowing the exact details of what you did in your test, it would not be possible to comment. However, I wish you luck with your experiments with trying to use ambient electrical noise and EM fields, etc. to try to power a JT circuit.

Regarding using stronger EM fields, in a test I did I was able to light an unpowered JT board LED quite brightly just by feeding a coil of wire with my low power signal generator and holding it near the JT board coils. The transistor doesn't appear to operate at all in this case however, and the power transfer to the LED appears to be mainly through magnetic induction between the external and JT collector coil.

@void,

The focus in Hong Kong now is – how much ambient electrical noise and EM fields can be brought-in?  Can it save energy and become a commercial product?  Will the addition of capacitors, antennas or other electronics components help?

My conclusion on this thread is that – the Zhou JT can be overunity in the presence of strong EM fields.  EM noise energy can be lead-out or brought-in to light the LED…..

I still think that we can build a circuit to align the dipoles and use the already available energy of the orbiting electrons…..  More research needed.

#### Void

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1836
##### Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #1068 on: June 21, 2013, 04:55:55 AM »
The focus in Hong Kong now is – how much ambient electrical noise and EM fields can be brought-in?  Can it save energy and become a commercial product?  Will the addition of capacitors, antennas or other electronics components help?

My conclusion on this thread is that – the Zhou JT can be overunity in the presence of strong EM fields.  EM noise energy can be lead-out or brought-in to light the LED…..

Hi Lawrence. If the LED is powered by external EM fields or electrical noise or radio signals, etc., it is not really over unity at all, at least not in the sense of over unity that most people are discussing and investigating here. Such a source of power would be from ordinary explainable man made power sources. Someone is paying for that power. There are various companies and people doing research into this area, but it really has nothing to do with 'over unity' research. That is not to say that such an approach could not prove useful for powering very low power devices. IMO, that approach is not really related to the topic of this thread however. Here we are looking for over unity in the sense of extra power coming from as yet unknown or unexplained power sources. As yet I have seen no demonstrations from you that show over unity. I have shown that what you previously were interpreting as over unity was actually due to measurement error.

I still think that we can build a circuit to align the dipoles and use the already available energy of the orbiting electrons…..  More research needed.

That may be possible. I wouldn't know. Certainly a number people have been making very similar claims for years such as Bedini and Bearden, etc. While I am open minded about such things and do my own experiments in this area as well, I have to wonder why if people like Bedini and Bearden really have built working over unity devices, why are they not putting the devices to practical use and producing and selling such devices. If the devices are really over unity it shouldn't be hard to demonstrate that. The only device that I am aware of Bedini selling is a desulphating type battery charger, however I personally am not aware of any demonstrations that shows convincingly that such a device is over unity. Instead Bedini now also seems to be focusing on selling alternate forms of crystal or chemical batteries. Strange. If he really has over unity devices, I really have to wonder why is he is not producing them or contracting/licensing someone else to produce them. There are lots of claims out there, but few if any people seem to be actually showing proper power measurements to back up such claims. Really it should go without saying that a person should demonstrate proper power measurements first and/or have the measurements confirmed by competent others first before claiming over unity. Otherwise it is just more unfounded claims to add to the ever growing pile.

« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 01:37:40 PM by Void »

#### turbogt16v

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 70
##### Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #1069 on: June 21, 2013, 08:51:16 PM »
did any seen this video

it seams like free energy device

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #1069 on: June 21, 2013, 08:51:16 PM »

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13695
##### Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #1070 on: June 23, 2013, 05:43:25 AM »
How bright is your LED, anyway? Here's how to find out.

#### ltseung888

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4363
##### Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #1071 on: June 27, 2013, 11:56:20 PM »
A cheap way to compare the efficiency of different Joule Thief circuits.

I have used the following method for many years:
1. Put a capacitor in parallel with the battery.  An example capacitor value is 10F 2.3V.
2, Connect the battery to charge the capacitor and light the LED for 1 minute.
3. Disconnect the battery and then measure the time the LED remains ON.

See attached.

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #1071 on: June 27, 2013, 11:56:20 PM »

#### hartiberlin

• Hero Member
• Posts: 7816
##### Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #1072 on: August 13, 2013, 11:43:08 PM »
Hi All,
I finally had time to make some measurements of one Fleet Joule Thief circuit,
that Lawrence Tseung has sent me a few months ago..

Sorry, I was on vaccation and had many other things to do in the meantime,
but finally here are the tests:

Test Part 1

Test Part 2

If you have any questions,

Regards. Stefan.

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13695
##### Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #1073 on: August 14, 2013, 11:41:38 AM »
Nicely done. It's too bad the results weren't better, though. We haven't heard from Lawrence in some time, I hope he's doing well.

It would be nice to understand why his results are so different from yours, on the same board.

#### SeaMonkey

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1261
##### Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #1074 on: August 14, 2013, 10:38:02 PM »
Somehow a tendency has developed in many
explanations to refer to the Current Measurement
Resistor as the "shunt" resistor.

As the resistor is a series resistor within the
circuit, whose purpose is to "convert" current
into voltage for ease of measurement with a
high impedance VoltMeter, there is potential
for great confusion amongst any Newbs who may
be watching and soaking up the technical
jargon (to be repeated endlessly.)

The Current Measurement Resistor is only a
"shunt" (or parallel connected resistor) with
respect to the meter which connects across
the resistor to display the voltage drop.

The "shunt" resistor and the VoltMeter together
make up a milliAmmeter device which is series
connected within the circuit of interest.

Hopefully all who demonstrate the technique
will take pains to clarify the proper relationship.

Bum Skinny spreads like wildfire in the Forums...

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #1074 on: August 14, 2013, 10:38:02 PM »

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13695
##### Re: Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?
« Reply #1075 on: August 15, 2013, 01:40:41 AM »
I suppose that is something else you can thank Ainslie for.

I generally refer to it as a CVR (current viewing resistor) and I received a ration of ... Ainslie-ness for it. Others often call it a CSR (current sensing resistor). Both are widely used; I don't like the "sensing" because the resistor doesn't sense anything it just sits there, dropping voltage. One views the current by sensing this voltage drop with an instrument, like a voltmeter or a time-voltmeter (oscilloscope).

I have also illustrated proper Shunts: