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Author Topic: Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields  (Read 19044 times)

Offline Eighthman

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Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields
« on: May 02, 2012, 01:46:45 AM »
The above is the title of an article from EDN magazine (Feb 18,2010) I thought it might be very relevant to the search for Mark's secret especially since a rotating field was shown by a spinning compass needle. 
 
I'd post the link but I can't get paste to work in this post.  Do a Google using that title and it should come up. The driver chip is particularly interesting (L6204).
 
eighthman

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Offline e2matrix

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Re: Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2012, 02:36:35 AM »
http://www.edn.com/article/457397-Electronically_generate_rotating_magnetic_fields.php

Did you try Control-V ?  Thanks - that's the article above.  It mentions using a PIC controller and doesn't seem to really show a whole circuit.  Not sure how useful that's going to be unless you already are fairly good at circuit design but I might be missing something.  It looks like it basically is using 4 inducters in a circle or square and triggering them in sequence.  I doubt if he was using a PIC - don't think they even had them when he built the first TPU's.  Didn't the first Parallax PIC controllers come out in the late 80's or early 90's? 


Offline Bruce_TPU

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Re: Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2012, 02:58:46 AM »
The above is the title of an article from EDN magazine (Feb 18,2010) I thought it might be very relevant to the search for Mark's secret especially since a rotating field was shown by a spinning compass needle. 
 
I'd post the link but I can't get paste to work in this post.  Do a Google using that title and it should come up. The driver chip is particularly interesting (L6204).
 
eighthman
The B field of a straight wire, with enough current can also spin a compass.  That was the whole point of why he wrote that.  To show it was not a solonoid, but the B field of the transmission line/output collectors. 
 
Cheers,
 
Bruce

Offline sidneo

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Re: Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2012, 04:16:13 AM »
The B field of a straight wire, with enough current can also spin a compass.  That was the whole point of why he wrote that.  To show it was not a solonoid, but the B field of the transmission line/output collectors. 
 
Cheers,
 
Bruce


Hi bruce,


do you think i should use strait wires in a cylinder  or a toroid to achieve this .
i need a solid state rotating field on my circuit .
link : [size=78%]http://magpowersystem.free.fr/Page_5_fichiers/Circuit%20simple.gif[/size]



Offline Lakes

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Re: Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2012, 10:59:56 AM »
See Stepper motor or brushless motor drive circuits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsmK6QHw9xM

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2012, 10:59:56 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline CompuTutor

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Re: Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2012, 11:53:30 AM »
Title Quote:
"Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields"

Is there an example anywhere in nature where a magnetic field isn't rotating in relation to the matter it is interacting with please ?

I do agree though, bad topic naming aside, zero-beating an excitation against the enviromental oppositions so that it retards or advances as a "Walking" field around a toroid core is a legit persuit.

But what is to be gained via this ?



Remember, the compass is only a two dimentional representation of the field it is placed in, it doesn't show the real picture at all.

I sure wish an X x Y + Z(axis) pair of right angle torroids or something was available for an oscilloscope to display and model/render what the real picture is...

For those not familier, the "Z" axis is only brightness on an O-Scope.

Imagine looking at a (2D) "Slice" of our reality and trying to understand it, we think in 3D modeling, but a compass only shows 2D worth of info, how can we respect those findings ?

Even our "Magnetic Modeling" programs make an effort to represent it as 3D,
even though the display is still not a holographic projector.

You pick a single point of reference in relation to the test currently undergone,
and it displays the 2D representation on a 2D screen at best.

Only a program that allows mouse-rotation to orientate,
and is represented in a 3D display medium as well
can come close to representing the truth.

We laugh at 3D models etched into a plexiglass cube at our malls,
but an "Etch" of a REAL TPU RUNNING would yield all the answers.



Offline Eighthman

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Re: Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2012, 05:09:56 PM »
I was under the impression that Mark's device spun a compass needle round and round, giving evidence of switched fields that created a sort of rotation.  In addition, the gyroscopic effect suggests a rotation of fields. Add to that the visual of 3 or 4 windings placed on the black speaker form, hinting at such a circuit.
 
EDN is a top level design magazine so the construction details may not be for the 'do-it-yourself' type.  I would think other, simpler arrangements could be made for generating the pulses, however the driver chip looked interesting.

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Re: Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2012, 05:09:56 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Lakes

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Re: Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2012, 05:28:51 PM »
If you really want to build your own circuit...

http://letsmakerobots.com/node/2898

Offline Eighthman

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Re: Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2012, 06:26:40 PM »
The main puzzlement I have with Mark's device is the fact of its simplicity together with contrasting profound effects, especially if the story about a weirdly exploding TV set is to be believed. ( I wish there was some independent testimony on this. I had once heard about exploding TV sets in the former Soviet Union but was told that it was because of poor quality capacitors).
 
Obviously, there are plenty of rotating magnetic fields around ever since Tesla invented the induction motor. Is it enough difference that Mark's device used rotating fields on air cores?Hasn't anyone else stumbled onto this phenomena?  Maybe Hendershot, maybe Searl (if he can be believed).
 
 

Offline CompuTutor

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Re: Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2012, 12:51:20 AM »
First, let me help you with the website link & PDF file,
I don't know why you aren't able to post them though:

Page:
http://www.edn.com/article/457397-Electronically_generate_rotating_magnetic_fields.php

PDF's:
http://www.edn.com/contents/images/6718481.pdf
http://www.edn.com/file/10550-Figure_2.pdf?force=true
http://www.edn.com/file/10715-Figure_3.pdf?force=true

Code:
http://www.edn.com/file/10724-Click_here.zip
http://www.edn.com/file/10724-Click_here.zip?force=true

Second, picture a 3-dimensional pattern. like a Lissajous pattern.
Now view it in only 2D, like the compass sees it, it would appear to spin.

I attached an animated .GIF picture as an easy example.
remove all vertical information a compass would not indicate,
and look at the crossing points on the horizontal line only.

See the problem with using 2D tools to see a 3D field ?

We need a proper 3D projection, from a 3D environment sensor,
to really know what the harmonics and patterns are in the TPU.

It's not like we can throw iron fillings at it in zero gravity,
or submerse it into a tank of ferro-fluid to see the patterns...

Your right though, simplicity is natures way, we just need better tools.

Don't get me wrong, I am not inferring a Lissajous is what they make,
look at magnetic modelling programs plots of Rodin coils instead please,
you'll clearly see why the ball magnet suspended in the ceneter spins,
this was just the simplest waveform to make the 2D-tool/3D-field issue clearer.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 02:30:14 AM by CompuTutor »

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Re: Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2012, 12:51:20 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline CompuTutor

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Re: Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2012, 02:02:09 AM »
I remember something with a fancy name like "inclinometer magnetometer",
it was a glass ball, with a smaller glass ball inside, with fluid between them.

The center ball is free to move, as it is suspended in the fluid,
and had a rod magnet in it to act like a compass to earths field.

It would not only show magnetic north for us northern hemisphere folk,
and also the penetration angle at the location it was used at too.

It was in a plastic gimbal frame with gradient markings to interpret it.

Anyone know where these can be had for cheap for those building TPU's ?

If the damping factor isn't to high, it could help adjust interactive frequency sets.



Easy enough to make one from a pair of those inexpensive
two-piece gumball machine toy containers, and a magnet.

A very thin kitchen oil should allow a fairly fast spin too...

Offline Bruce_TPU

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Re: Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2012, 03:56:16 AM »

Hi bruce,


do you think i should use strait wires in a cylinder  or a toroid to achieve this .
i need a solid state rotating field on my circuit .
link : [size=78%]http://magpowersystem.free.fr/Page_5_fichiers/Circuit%20simple.gif[/size]

Hi Sidneo,
 
I think you should think along these lines....  ;)
 
http://www.overunity.com/12144/eblv-genmotor-design-by-bruce/msg321090/#msg321090
 
Cheers,
 
Bruce


Offline Eighthman

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Re: Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2012, 02:30:29 AM »
Holy Cow! Read this exhaustive analysis of the TPU derived from hours of examining photos.
http://www.slideshare.net/niculaegeorge/a-detail-study-of-the-steven-mark-tpu-10721103
 
Very impressive
 

Offline pauldude000

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Re: Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2012, 01:45:11 PM »
Something for you to consider. First, you will notice that the original wiring diagram I had posted forever and ten years ago included the setup they demonstrate. What is wrong with the picture is that these coils will not make a rotating field......


The field, instead of rotating, swings back and forth, as they are exciting it with AC according to their waveform. AC reinforces back emf.


It would only appear to rotate. (Though this appearance would be in two dimensions as soon as the field itself reverses due to back emf.)


True rotation would be awesome, but inherently extremely difficult. It involves a ton of math, and relatively precise wire lengths (Including lead in and connective wires have to be included in the calculations.)


It has to be high frequency (Due to the speed of transmission of electricity in a wire. Higher frequency, shorter wire in the coil.) Low frequencies can cause rotation as easily as high frequencies, but the coil length can be astronomical, and the speed of rotation will be inherently comparatively slow.


I guess the ultimate question is which kind of rotation are you after?


Linear in relation to the circumference? (Coils aimed inline of circumference with magnetic lines following circumference. Very hard, limited use. One Tesla patent that I know of.)


Diagonal to the circumference? (Coils aimed at point of rotation, magnetic lines of force cutting across the circumference. . Relatively easy, examine any large size AC motor with both rotor and stater windings. or in a different configuration a small ac induction motor.)


Have some fun, make a stack of six and do both, with each layer counter rotating in relation to the one above, with serious juice..... Just let me know when, so I can find shelter.  ;D


Offline enron-r-crooks

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Re: Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2012, 08:39:59 AM »
If anyone is still looking for a circuit, a doc is available from

http://www.stealthskater.com/Documents/TIME/RotatingFields.doc

and a ton of info at

http://www.stealthskater.com/PX.htm


You can use this to drive the coils in this page.


http://www.edn.com/article/457397-Electronically_generate_rotating_magnetic_fields.php


I heard SM was into audio engineering  :-X

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Electronically generate rotating magnetic fields
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2012, 08:39:59 AM »

 

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