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Author Topic: simple things  (Read 46330 times)

Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #75 on: February 18, 2012, 09:23:02 AM »
It dawned on me that I have two meters :)


When I get the thing into negative run mode the battery voltage reads way high, much higher than it could be so that is a meter error, when it is a discharge mode the battery voltage drops, not a meter error, when it is in negative run mode the voltage is all over the place,,,,, flyback but with added current from the main drive coil maybe???  Think of it as splatter on steroids.

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Re: simple things
« Reply #75 on: February 18, 2012, 09:23:02 AM »

Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #76 on: February 18, 2012, 09:41:48 AM »
Thanks Garry, you made me think about this particular motor.  I was playing with this pulse motor back when my middle son was 8 years old, I let him play with it because I was done playing with it, he is now 21,,,,, Franken Motor predates that by at least 10 years,, wow does time fly.

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Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #77 on: February 20, 2012, 12:14:21 AM »

Well still have not got back into self run,, the unit today would not even show the negative state I tried all sorts of things and it was just a no go then I disconnected everything and pretended like I was starting fresh.  So it seems this time around that the small cap is killing the effect off, so I am not using it, also I noticed that the effect came back AFTER I ran the motor with just one coil for a little bit,,, strange, saw the negative piece show up hooked in the other coil still saw it then hooked up the cap and it was all gone,,, started over again and at this time I am still trying to figure out the negative part, it won't charge the big cap up for self run but I have had it running for the last hour on 3 flat 9V batteries.


It is in the negative state but if I push on the brush harder it will go into a normal draw state,,,,,interesting

Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #78 on: February 22, 2012, 10:30:59 PM »

been playing with all sorts of ways of hooking up the pulse motor, still no self run but the only coil that drives my meter negative is the backup coil in the picture, I have tried other coils that are not the same but close and no go, I have tried coils not on the motor but next to it still no go, none of these attempts have driven my meter negative like the original backup coil mounted on the motor, it will go a little negative without the extension core added but does way better with it.


I have found a few different negative relationships that are interesting, least wise to me.  I can get the negative reading to about -.15A and have the AC reading being either .30ish all the way up to 1.0A, I can get the negative reading to go all the way up to -.64A and have the AC reading go over 2.0A and all of these are with a very small arc coming from the brush.


I used one of my funny toroid coils and could take power out of the toroid while driving the motor really fast,,, with a really high draw of course :) and I can take the toroid and use it bifilar in opposing fashion and really speed it up more and of course the draw is higher BUT the really big BUT is that the vast majority of heat from the brush is gone, it barely gets warm,,,, interesting.


I can't remember which setup I was trying but as soon as the motor sped up a little bit my meter wold turn off, now that is strange.


I also found that one of my jumper wires was broken on both ends, one end I think I just did but the other end was all chared on the inside of the insulation, it was a red jumper just not sure which one that was in the best test I did.


Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #79 on: February 23, 2012, 12:21:27 AM »
never mind about the toroid, it was the placement of caps that got rid of the heat.

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Re: simple things
« Reply #79 on: February 23, 2012, 12:21:27 AM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #80 on: February 24, 2012, 06:28:49 AM »

I was not going to mention this but just in case it helps with others noticing something similar.


I am using a hand held brush for my contact this brush will give off many different values of arc, the bad one is one that makes my eyes hurt with the UV radiation expected from a standard arc, another one is one that is bright but has no effects to my eyes or head,,,,, if you will :) the other is one that is still mystifying me, it can make me loose time and fall asleep,,,, very strange to be awoken by your head hitting your testbed,,,,


This testbed I am working with also has a "temper", if I make it mad the arc becomes very loud and the performance of the testbed degrades HUGE, I am still not sure of what I do to calm it back down, when I make it "happy" the arcs are almost noiseless and smooth and the motor spins up much better with much less draw.


These are the same conditions I have with Franken Motor with the exception that I can get Franken Motor into a free run condition for a while, I call that condition "super cruse"


I have found that I can either use caps all around the system to stop the negative draw value showing on the meter OR I can use a resistance from the source,,,,,, interesting.


When this testbed is in a good run setup the brush makes a sound like a small air rush, no snapping or arcing sounds at all and the arc itself is not normal,,, can not describe it very well except to say it "feels" happy.

Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #81 on: February 26, 2012, 01:37:37 AM »

So I thought about flipping the wires around on my meter, thinking that I should have the meter read positive for a charge and negative for a draw, strange as it may sound that did not happen, flipped them back and I got the reading, flipped them back and did not, was scratching my head on that and then just for the heck of it I wired the main drive coil in series and then it was happening with the meter wires reversed.


This is getting to be very interesting and very confusing.

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Re: simple things
« Reply #81 on: February 26, 2012, 01:37:37 AM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #82 on: March 06, 2012, 09:28:04 PM »
this is annoying, I had the testbed running from a 2mA draw on 27V with the brush showing about 24mA going through the contacts but since I do not have a good brush holder every time I bump something the timing changes and now I can not get it back to run on 2mA, it is taking 4.5mA and that is more than my flat 9V's can put out, it is 7 9V batteries to give me the 27V :) they are rather flat.

Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #83 on: May 23, 2012, 08:03:35 PM »
This i a test I did many years ago, it is a twist on the head to head motor concept and yes I understand that there is no such thing as an ideal motor or chain. 

My results, as far as I am concerned, substantiated the concept but upon consideration of the size, cost and complexity that the device would have, made it a non-practical idea.

In my test I used a long pull constant force spring, I did not think of using Gravity at that time but I am going to use Gravity in this explanation.

The setup: two ideal motors with sprockets mounted on their shafts, a mechanism to stop the case torque and a long loop of chain.  Attach the chain around the sprockets and separate the two motors to pull the chain tight, place the setup on a table and power up the motor, what happens??

When the motor is energized it creates a torque that is transformed by the the drive sprocket into a tension through the chain to the generator sprocket, the resistance to turn from the generator does not allow the tension to be transformed back into a torque, so the two units get pulled together, simple enough but what is needed to stop that from happening??

A device of some sort must be placed between the two motors that is able to counter the tension within the chain, it could be a stick or whatever but it must be a constant since the tension in the chain is a constant itself.

What if I placed the sprocket of the generator over the edge of the table and allowed the chain to fall down towards the ground, then I suspended the drive motor in a device so that it is at the bottom of the chain loop??

Now when I energize the drive motor Gravity is supplying the constant force to counter the tension in the chain, now what if I counter balance the drive motor so that there is just enough force from Gravity to allow the transfer of force from drive motor to generator??

In this condition the drive motor to an outside reference will be weightless, free for me to move upwards since the tension being created in the chain by the drive motor is offsetting the force of Gravity and the counter balance has removed any left over weight.

So, now I supply a force value of say 10% to lift the drive motor up towards the generator, while I am doing this that also means that the generator is now giving me only 90% of the power needed to run the motor because while I am lifting the drive motor the tension in the chain has gone down by 10%, so I am actually needing to supply a total of 20% of the force during the lift moment, now that I have the drive motor up at the top I turn it off, lock the sprocket and chain to the motor and allow Gravity to pull the motor back down supplying the tension in the chain needed to turn the generator, so on the way down I get 100% of the power generated to use and store BUT I must use 20% of that to put back into the system to allow me to raise the motor back up.

Simple enough, so I replace one constant with another constant that I can manipulate, and then take advantage of the situation, I am making a "net zero" condition that allows me to create a change in potential without actually interacting with the change while doing so.

 

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