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Author Topic: simple things  (Read 47527 times)

Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #60 on: December 23, 2011, 03:19:43 AM »
Just another thing I made, thought I would post it because it is kind of interesting.


What it is is a inertial force torque aid.  What it does is add a torque to the shaft while only being attached to the shaft and it does not throw anything away, it does accelerate a mass and then decelerates the mass and so on and so forth with a posotive torque being applied to the shaft regardless of the shaft speed.


What you see in the pic is a mass cage, the driven shaft and three levers what is missing is the other half (I only built half of the unit to see if the idea actually worked) and the pulse drive unit.


It did work by the way, when I turned on the pulse drive unit my input to the shaft drive motor went down and the output from the generator on the other end of the shaft went up.

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Re: simple things
« Reply #60 on: December 23, 2011, 03:19:43 AM »

Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #61 on: December 23, 2011, 08:26:08 PM »

I will try and explain this a little better.


First observation is that if I wish to accelerate a mass I must apply a force against it and myself,, this is of course well known.


This unit is designed around what I call an Over Center Compound Lever.  The OCCL is a simple lever system where you have one lever, a 2:2 lever where the pivot point is an axle, you have a second lever that is a 4:1 lever with the pivot attached to the end of the first lever as such that the long arm comes back past the axle for the first lever and the short arm goes out away from the axle of the first lever, now if you attach a 4 pound weight to the end of the short arm of the second lever a 1 pound weight at the end of the long arm of the second lever gives you 5 pounds of weight on the pivot point of the two levers, so at this point the axle of the first lever must hold against that torque value.  Instead of placing a mass weight at the end of the long arm of the second lever I pull on the arm with 1 pound of force I still have the same condition of 5 pounds of force on the pivot between the two arms, and now we change it a little more and use the other end of the first lever as the attaching point of a device to pull on the long arm of the second lever.


So now we have the basic unit but an alteration is still needed, and that is to move the location of the 4 pound mass so that it is pulled from the other side of the axle through the axle, this took a lot of gentle tweaking to get very close to what is desired.  When that is done you simply make a second OCCL that is 180 degrees from the first one set on the same axle and they both play with the same mass, throwing the mass back and forth between them.  A problem arises within this that needs to be dealt with and that is the axle turns and needs to turn freely in one direction but not in the other so the first lever is attached to the axle with a one way bearing assembly allowing for the rotation that is need.


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Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #62 on: December 24, 2011, 12:42:38 AM »

Here is a different approach to do the same thing.


Go to a childrens playground that has a merry-go-round, a merry-go-round for those who don't know is a large round table sitting atop an axle so that it can spin and has handles on it so that you can hold on while the thing is spinning.  Stand on the merry-go-round facing the center and hold your arms straight out from your sides, place a mass in your right hand and only using the twist of your body throw the mass across the merry-go-round,,, what happens to the merry-go-round? it starts to rotate, now have someone else standing on the other side so that they can catch the mass with there left hand, what happens then?  have them place the mass in there right hand and using only the twist of there body throw it back to you so that you can catch it in your left hand,, repeat, repeat, repeat.


Now hang the mass over the center of the merry-go-round and attach long arms from the mass out to where you are standing so that now the transit time of the mass is almost none, getting a little bit better.  After playing with this a little bit I noticed that the direction of acceleration is not ideal to go across the center so now you need to have many people standing around the merry-go-round so that there is a person standing in the right spot to catch the mass, also it is not nice to have to move the mass from hand to hand so if there are two people in each spot standing side by side so that one catches with there left hand and the other person can throw it back with there right without having to move the mass,, getting better, now enlarge the merry-go-round so that you have a hundred pairs of people and repeat the experiment, what happens is that the merry-go-round spins slower, real slow even but the torque is really high you could almost view it as a gear ratio, the more pairs the bigger that gear reduction, so now if I were to accelerate the merry-go-round to say 100 RPM and then the people started throwing the mass around they would add a torque to the system with very little acceleration and what you would see from above would be the mass spinning backwards to the merry-go-round at the gear ratio value, so a hundred pairs at a hundred RPM would have the pairs\mass rotating backwards at 1 RPM relative or it would be spinning at 99 RPM while the merry-go-round is at 100 RPM.


I have not set this up with more than 3 assembly’s but it makes sense to me that what I did see would indeed scale up.

Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #63 on: December 30, 2011, 07:45:16 PM »

something different.


Yesterday I was running my pump system with a few changed parts, what I noticed was a very strange voltage\amperage reading going into my drive motor.


The setup I am using is a small electric motor driving my crankshaft\flywheel that drives the pump, the motor is connected via a rubber belt and it is not setup nice and tends to slip sometimes a little sometimes a lot, anyway I usually run this on about 4.5V but have a 12V battery I can also use, which is fun using it testing if the rig is strong enough or not, so for a short time period, approx. 3 minutes, while I had the 12V supply hooked up with the system jerking around my voltage across the motor was jumping over 120V and the amps were up and down, stabilized the system and the readings went to a normal value.


The thought I am running with right now, besides a bad meter, is that with the power available from the 12V supply and the jerking motion of the system and the stretch in the belt the motor was put into a sort of shorting condition, the load allowed for a high current flow then the sudden relaxation of the load killed the current at the same time the snatch from the system through the belt overdrove the motor creating the high voltage readings.  This does go along with other experiments by others where a pulsed input or output changes the standard values and leads to anomalous readings.


Could be another way of doing those??


Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #64 on: December 31, 2011, 12:27:50 AM »

This is a picture of a pulse motor I made about 20 years ago, it did not use any fancy control circuits, no electronics except for a battery, a few wires and a contact disc.  The disc was made so that I could change the on to off time as well as the timing part.


Two things with motor I found really interesting, first was that I could set a start condition, wait for the rotor to settle down and then adjust the timing and it would speed up, wait for it to settle down and do it again and get a further speed up, wait for it settle down adjust again and get the last speed up I could, so by the time I was done the thing was just screaming, the interesting part is that the change in timing would move back and forth and when I had it at its fastest and then turned it off without changing anything it would start up in reverse.


The second thing was the amount of heat the contact made, it would melt a 29 gauge wire in a heart beat, kept using larger wire but had to use pliers to hold on to the wire while adjusting, nothing to big except I was running it off of either 9V battery’s or 2 6V battery’s, never looked at the actual power draw it was just too much fun melting things or seeing just how fast it would go.


Hand wound coil, the core is the long sections from a transformer "E" core, bearing assembly out of a VCR and the drive magnet out of a VCR capstan motor.

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Re: simple things
« Reply #64 on: December 31, 2011, 12:27:50 AM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #65 on: January 12, 2012, 09:47:17 PM »

I thought I would put this here to make it easy to find, and just cause it is mine :)


This is Franken Motor.


Franken Motor is made from a bunch of PVC pipe, a few bearings, some wood and some wires and stuff.  The C shaped pieces are cut PVC pipe that has been drilled to hold onto the 1\2 inch diameter ceramic magnets.  Each holder has the same pole facing inside the C so all the magnets are either N facing in or S facing in and then the holders are set so that they go NSNS around the ring.


I call this a virtual pole electric motor, it is a way of putting the "pole face" right in line with the coil without having a physical thing in the way of the coil passing through it as well as it is a magnet transistor, if you will, what I mean by that is that you can use a small input to control the magnetic throughput of the core, let it flow one way or not.

Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #66 on: January 24, 2012, 11:22:37 PM »

So I’ve been playing with this gravity wheel stuff and finding it kind of intriguing and fun.


What I have at the moment is a shape that interacts with another shape using the correct motion or movement I am able to exert my lifting force over 2 inches and yet the fall is 3 inches.  To the best of my guessing right now the lifting force is no greater than the force of gravity acting on the mass, actually I think it is less because I am able to use a rotary input motion so I only have the full weight of the mass through a small angle of interaction.  When testing this setup it is very sensitive to the actual interaction angles and stuff, if you are off by a little bit the force you need to put in goes up a lot.


I can not get to exact with anything because I have only built a mock-up of what the test bed should look like but I made it movable, it is made out of cardboard, tape and weights and is glued to a nice bearing :)

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Re: simple things
« Reply #66 on: January 24, 2012, 11:22:37 PM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #67 on: February 17, 2012, 01:51:59 AM »

Very strange.


I started playing with my old pulse motor and stuck a solenoid winding on the back side of the drive coil, wired the solenoid kind of together with the main coil and then put some kind of cap across the main drive coil and spun it up,, nifty it ran but once it got up to a certain speed the draw went down to -.14 max but spent most of the time at -.06 to 0.0 not a draw but a charge and I could get the motor to speed up while showing the negative draw value,,,,, very strange


Can't really say HOW it is wired I just sort of used jumpers and stuff and connected it all together, my contact brush is held very lightly by hand and is making contact with a metal disc with tape on it for separations.


Max draw for the motor like this is .30A running wired differently it would show .05A to .12A running in its current setup it will run with -.14A all at about 13V

Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #68 on: February 17, 2012, 07:33:56 PM »

Today I fired it back up to confirm for the 8th time that I am seeing my meter go negative while the motor is running.


It is easier to get into the negative state without the small cap in place but when I get it going with the cap I can get a higher negative reading.


I am using a Fluke 77 and it has a little +- in the bottom left corner that flashes what it is seeing, so when it is seeing a +- value it flashes back and forth but when it sees only a + it shows just the + and the same with a -.  When the motor is in a stable run the little icon does not flash it stays constant as a -.


Now I am going to pull it apart and clean things up and setup the contact disk a little bit better and see if I can repeat the test.

Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #69 on: February 17, 2012, 09:00:53 PM »
clean smooth disc with fixed 50% on time the best I can get it to do is a .02A draw, but the flyback zap is enough to make you jump :)


next is to make the on time adjustable.

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Re: simple things
« Reply #69 on: February 17, 2012, 09:00:53 PM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #70 on: February 18, 2012, 12:57:49 AM »
I was getting worried there for a bit, with the adjustable timing it still did not want to work, well I didn't think it would I think I need a rough disc to work better,,,, anyway after playing with it for a while and getting the disc "seated" it started doing its thing, not as good as yesterday it was only getting up to about  -.10A for the high and mainly hung out around -.03A


More to play with later

Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #71 on: February 18, 2012, 06:32:32 AM »
it runs closed loop using a large cap in place of the battery :)


Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #72 on: February 18, 2012, 07:08:30 AM »
This thing is a pain in the ass.


My first 3 attempts went just fine, started out with a .08A draw from the battery, spun it up until I was seeing -.03A disconected the battery and it kept spinning up and got to -.08 amp and settled with both RPM and output, now I have tried several differant ways and I can NOT get it to go negative ??????????

Offline garrypm

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Re: simple things
« Reply #73 on: February 18, 2012, 07:17:59 AM »
I hate it when you think you got something, make changes, then can't get back or as usual for me , I do not
record what I had to start with.
 
Good luck with it Tom - I understand how frustrating it is.
 
Garry

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Offline webby1

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Re: simple things
« Reply #74 on: February 18, 2012, 09:05:11 AM »
Excuse my response I have been taking my mind off the thing <<BEG>>


This is a note to myself: the magnetic domains have increased in there value after the first few runs of self run,, strange.


Garry,


Frustration IS the way to change, why would that be a problem, should it not be a question that someone needs to answer?


The next change I am fighting with is because it means that I need to make a change to some parts that I might not be able to return from.  Like most of us I need to make the money I spend on parts, or I need to find them <<<<<BEG>>>>> so when I get in this place I need to ask if it is worth it or not for the parts I will be sacrificing.


I have a way of making FREE electricity,,, but I don't think it is practical, and if it is not practical then why pursue it?? so I don't, well have not yet gone there in a full blown system, just the main parts to see if it will work, Gravity really does pull you down some days :)




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Re: simple things
« Reply #74 on: February 18, 2012, 09:05:11 AM »

 

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