Cookies-law

Cookies help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
http://www.overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please leave this website now. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

Poplamp

poplamp

CCTool

CCTool

LEDTVforSale

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

OverUnity Book

overunity principles book

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Statistics

  • *Total Members: 82004
  • *Latest: jolyon

  • *Total Posts: 493033
  • *Total Topics: 14497
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 0
  • *Guests: 59
  • *Total: 59

Facebook

Author Topic: a Voltaic Pile Battery  (Read 17993 times)

Offline sm0ky2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2351
a Voltaic Pile Battery
« on: June 10, 2011, 07:26:35 PM »
In honor of Count Alessandro Volta

i have decided to recreate a version of the original (modern society) electrochemical battery.

Materials::

a piece of board
soda cans
pennies
5 wooden dowels
10 small nails
scrap paper
water
salt
2 pieces of wire
-----------------------------------------------------------------

The photos below show the materials used, and a small demonstration stack that measures in at just under 4 Volts.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Method:

First cut the paper into small pices/strips/shredded ect.
  and soak it in water for a few hours until it becomes a mush
then add salt ( ideal quantity is unknown, so i just add some salt)

Next, cut the top and bottom off of the soda cans, and sand off the outer protective coatings paint (outside) and wax (inside), to expose the aluminum surface.
Then cut the can into strips about the width of a penny, then cut the strips into squares the size of a penny.

What you want to do is layer the cells Aluminum (negative), a thin layer of salty-paper substrate, then a penny.
place the next piece of aluminum directly on top of the penny and continue until you achieve the desired voltage.

Each cell is approx 0.5v , they do add up in series, but mine are not adding up axactly as i expected, adding two cells results in a value slightly less than 1 volt,  so my 4volt stack is made up of 15-cells.
This might be a construction issue, i'll continue to run tests as i build this thing.

The "frame" i came up with is similar to volta's original "pile", with a rod in the center and 4 rods around it, (wooden dowels) and in the spaces between them will be 4 stacks of cells, connected in parallel.


[why the substrate?]
i have seen cells made of single pieces of paper, or even coffee filters soaked in salt water. These work just fine.
i am using the substrate, because it results in a bit thicker paper layer, tests have shown that this increases the output currrent of the cells.

my small "test" stack, is about as big as its going to get for now, because it wants to fall over,. so i will construct the frame and post more later. For those interested in actual current readings, i'll have to do that once the completed battery is assembled. my digital meter suffered an electrostatic mishap (again), and this analog meter has limited current settings. all i can say at this point is the 4v stack is somewhere between:
 100 microamps (pegged the needle) and 1 ma. (doesnt register)

Enjoy





Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

a Voltaic Pile Battery
« on: June 10, 2011, 07:26:35 PM »

Offline sm0ky2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2351
Re: a Voltaic Pile Battery
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2011, 08:44:32 PM »
ok so,... the "circular" design i was going for didnt hold things together as well as i had hoped,
so i went with just 4 stacks in a straight line..

I got this thing up to 9 volts now, with 32 cells in a stack
There seems to be a voltage issue with surface contact on the pennies, so i may have to go through and remove any tarnish or dirt from them before assembling the battery, but so far it seems to be working well.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline onthecuttingedge2005

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
Re: a Voltaic Pile Battery
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2011, 09:40:27 PM »
I did the same experiment 20 years ago but I used zinc penny's sanded down to reveal the zinc and use pre 1970's copper pennys and used flouride tooth paste as the electrolyte, worked pretty good, fun experiment indeed.

Jerry

Offline b_rads

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
Slightly different - Same idea!
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2011, 10:34:35 PM »
This is one I made 4 months ago.  A couple ml water every 6 weeks or so and still working.    A voltaic pile battery using magnesium, copper foil, felt, and plain tap water with Alum.  Open circuit shows slightly over 4volts.  Enough under load to power a 5mm red LED directly.  Apply pressure to the stack and the voltage and amps will improve.
Brad S


Offline sm0ky2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2351
Re: a Voltaic Pile Battery
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2011, 07:36:18 AM »
I did the same experiment 20 years ago but I used zinc penny's sanded down to reveal the zinc and use pre 1970's copper pennys and used flouride tooth paste as the electrolyte, worked pretty good, fun experiment indeed.

Jerry

is that what that is? Zinc?  i tried to sand a few of them, but it seems the pennies made after 1989 or so are not copper, but actually copper-coated, with a silverish alloy inside, that is much closer to aluminum on the electrochemical scale, only producing 0.15v between penny and aluminum, so i left the copper coating on to get the full 0.5v per cell.
Zinc would make sense... i didnt bother to study up on it, just figured it was best to not sand them, but clean them instead.

My goal is to achieve at least 12 volts from this. To test its pheasibility as a "doomsday power supply", made from very-common materials.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: a Voltaic Pile Battery
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2011, 07:36:18 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline onthecuttingedge2005

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
Re: a Voltaic Pile Battery
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2011, 12:15:54 PM »
is that what that is? Zinc?  i tried to sand a few of them, but it seems the pennies made after 1989 or so are not copper, but actually copper-coated, with a silverish alloy inside, that is much closer to aluminum on the electrochemical scale, only producing 0.15v between penny and aluminum, so i left the copper coating on to get the full 0.5v per cell.
Zinc would make sense... i didnt bother to study up on it, just figured it was best to not sand them, but clean them instead.

My goal is to achieve at least 12 volts from this. To test its pheasibility as a "doomsday power supply", made from very-common materials.

Hi Smoky.

If your Lincoln Memorial penny has a date of 1982 or earlier, it is made of 95% copper. If the date is 1983 or later, it is made of 97.5% zinc and plated with a thin copper coating.

zinc is a very good negative element and copper being the positive.
I even tried it with silver which is better than copper. carbon is lighter and cheaper and works pretty good too in place of copper.

here is an electronegative chart.
http://www.standnes.no/chemix/periodictable/electronegativity-chart.htm
on this chart the lower the electronegative number is more positive compared to another higher in number is more negative.

the best battery would be of Cesium and Fluorine, Cesium being the most positive element and Fluorine being the most negative element. Fluorine is a very reactive element in fact Fluorine reacts the most of any reactive element known to man. it is the most negative element.

Cesium is also a double electron donor, it emits 2 electrons instead of 1 in chemical reactions. it is the most positive element.

the type of electrolyte you use makes a major difference as well. it must react efficiently with both anode and cathode elements.

salt water, may not be a good electrolyte for all element combination's.

Jerry 8)
« Last Edit: June 11, 2011, 01:27:00 PM by onthecuttingedge2005 »

Offline sm0ky2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2351
Re: a Voltaic Pile Battery
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2011, 05:41:31 PM »
thanks Jerry,

i guess the plan from here on, is to get rid of the aluminum cans, because they degrade rapidly.
and instead, sand the coating off of the newer pennies, and alternate them with older ones.
using a conbination of copper and zinc. which is closer to Volta's original battery (salt water verson, as i am not going to mess with sulfuric acid)


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: a Voltaic Pile Battery
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2011, 05:41:31 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline sm0ky2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2351
Re: a Voltaic Pile Battery
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2011, 06:05:48 PM »
after sanding a few pennies down, i had some concens about remaining bits of copper on the zinc pennies interfering with the reaction. So i ran a few preliminary tests.

a two-pennie cell is reading in at a whopping 0.9v

two-cell stack is measuring well over 1.5v

so this works great, and should be more "durable" than using aluminum cans.
i'll post more pics and results as the battery grows...

think i need to rig up some sort of penny-vice and get the dremmell going here.

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
Re: a Voltaic Pile Battery
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2011, 07:21:47 PM »
thanks Jerry,

i guess the plan from here on, is to get rid of the aluminum cans, because they degrade rapidly.
and instead, sand the coating off of the newer pennies, and alternate them with older ones.
using a conbination of copper and zinc. which is closer to Volta's original battery (salt water verson, as i am not going to mess with sulfuric acid)

vinegar or concentrated lemon or lime juice and or both could be used safely and they are acids.

Jerry 8)

Offline sm0ky2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2351
Re: a Voltaic Pile Battery
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2011, 12:19:57 AM »
i thought about that when i started
but the reason i went with salt-paper was sustainability.

salt paper cells last a lot longer, by absorbing moisture from the air.
so even when it appears "dry", there is still voltage/current available from te battery.
whereas a lemon-cell will dry out quickly and stop working.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: a Voltaic Pile Battery
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2011, 12:19:57 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline onthecuttingedge2005

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
Re: a Voltaic Pile Battery
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2011, 05:54:33 AM »
i thought about that when i started
but the reason i went with salt-paper was sustainability.

salt paper cells last a lot longer, by absorbing moisture from the air.
so even when it appears "dry", there is still voltage/current available from te battery.
whereas a lemon-cell will dry out quickly and stop working.

Add Potassium Chloride(table salt) instead of Sodium Chloride(table salt) because of Potassium's better ion exchange, also you can add these salts to vinegar or lemon lime juice to increase ion potential. the acidic salts will be better carriers of ions than salt water.

Jerry 8)

Offline sm0ky2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2351
Re: a Voltaic Pile Battery
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2011, 06:02:42 AM »
i dont have any potassium chloride,
i do however, have some potassium sodium tartrate,, from a peizoelectric crystal experiment...  i'll have to run some tests.


Offline onthecuttingedge2005

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
Re: a Voltaic Pile Battery
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2011, 06:21:42 AM »
i dont have any potassium chloride,
i do however, have some potassium sodium tartrate,, from a peizoelectric crystal experiment...  i'll have to run some tests.

good to hear.

good luck and better adventures smoky.

Jerry 8)

Offline sm0ky2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2351
Re: a Voltaic Pile Battery
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2011, 05:54:16 PM »
the most efficient way to remove the copper from the pennies that i have found, is to just rub their faces on concrete.

you only have to remove the copper from one side of the penny.

the first stack is only 1/4th of the way full, and its already over 9V

so when i get to the top of my frame, i'll be well over my 12V goal

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


 

Share this topic to your favourite Social and Bookmark site

Please SHARE this topic at: