Cookies-law

Cookies help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
http://www.overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please leave this website now. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

Poplamp

poplamp

CCTool

CCTool

LEDTVforSale

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

OverUnity Book

overunity principles book

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

movieclipsfree

movie clips free

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 482325
  • *Total Topics: 14218
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 5
  • *Guests: 176
  • *Total: 181

Facebook

Author Topic: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?  (Read 543048 times)

Offline hyiq

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 207
Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2011, 03:30:54 AM »
It's worth repeating!

Yes Yes Yes, completely agree, I am not shooting it down. I dont dis-miss anything like this. Untill proven not Overunity, it is worthy of great study. The output needs to be useable, and preferably to power itself. Some devices I have built measure OU but as soon as you change the output Load things change and everything goes hay-wire. Output Load needs to be able to be changed without changing the running characteristics of the machine.

All I am saying is dont trust the meters. They are not always right in my experience.

All the best

  Chris

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy




Offline JouleSeeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2011, 06:26:24 AM »
I agree with people who indicate that instrumentation - once
you've think you've seen evidence of overunity energy - should
be completely removed from the experiment.

It' is extremely easy to substitute RC time constants to integrate
the amount of DC energy from rectified current that will rid
power calculation of any HF signal edge effects and cable
reflections. Use diodes that operate with relatively high efficiency.

For example rather than running the oscillator directly from a battery,
run it on a capacitor that get charged from the battery via an NE555
switch that will cause the circuit oscillations to run for a fixed time then
be reset to fixed voltage - and imply energy from load on the RC time
constant.

Then look at output energy collected on the capacitors as a function
of the RC time constant. Look at comparative Hi vs Lo voltage.

The R and C can be then measured with precision statically.

I think some of the things that happen with Steorn, show that
you can't really trust power measurements of HF pulses especially
when your instrumentation becomes part of circuit operation. You
may be pitting the quality of the signal processing against the
MPS2222 transistors ability to detect the scopes input impedance.

Don't pull the old sophomoric BS about how expensive instruments must
give correct results no matter how they are used. Be ready to cross
check each result, then accept what your results indicate.

:S:MarkSCoffman

I agree also.  That is precisely why I stated in the video that I am now working on using an input capacitor instead of battery power, and output capacitor(s) instead of Rout -- to collect the output energy.  I have begun tests of this type.  The problems are that the input cap does not hold charge particularly well (looking for less leaky caps), but more importantly, the voltage of the input cap varies -- and the efficiency I have found varies with variation in the input voltage.  I'm working on a higher capacitance input cap so that the input Voltage stays close to the same throughout the run. 

I realize there are limits to the oscilloscope method outlined and used, and that is why I am trying other methods as well.

 Another method I've started is to compare the temperature rise in the two matched (1-ohm) CSR's.  If indeed there is more current circulating in the output leg of the circuit, that resistor CSR(out) should show a greater temp rise than CSR(in).  That is the simplest non-oscilloscope test I have thought of so far...
« Last Edit: May 29, 2011, 07:24:03 AM by JouleSeeker »

Offline JouleSeeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2011, 06:32:19 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Kdve9sKrxQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ntFxscwi00

In these circuits, while there is similarity (which I have already acknowledged), the diode points the opposite direction, the wrong way, from the "Boost Resonator" = "sj1" circuit.  Also, I've added variable resistors as explained earlier, to permit circuit "tuning."


Offline JouleSeeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
Re: PhysicsProf circuit sj1, easy-to-build, shows promise
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2011, 06:38:05 AM »
Never trust the spiky waveforms, they can confuse even the most sophisticated instruments. Best way to measure them is to rectify them and measure the DC instead. Of course there will be some loss; but at 8x output it will not be an issue.
In this circuit even the input is spiky, which means double trouble.Right now I can't think of any way to measure the input reliably.

To protect the probes from radiation, shield the circuit by placing it in a metal box and running long thick wire to the rectifier placed far away.

Then there is the issue of scope ground. The scope probes have common ground and when you connect them at the same time to an ungrounded circuit, results become unpredictable.

If you get a good DC power out of it, its best to pulse it back into the input and get rid of scopes and meters. That will be the final test.....

@OmegaO -- See my post above regarding alternative power measurements that I'm pursuing, also mentioned in the vid, not using oscilloscopes.  ( I'm agreeing with you that scope methods have limits.) 

@MotorGuy -- "Motor Guy:
The circuit has huge stray inductances, and the transistor is not decoupled. "  Same response -- and again, my pursuit of alternative methods of measurement to check the results was already mentioned in the vid.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: PhysicsProf circuit sj1, easy-to-build, shows promise
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2011, 06:38:05 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Mk1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2069
Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2011, 06:39:29 AM »
@Joule seeker

I see one more improvement that could be done , Variable cap to tune the Freq .


Offline JouleSeeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2011, 06:45:46 AM »
@Joule seeker

I see one more improvement that could be done , Variable cap to tune the Freq .

Appreciated and noted.  Lots of opportunities for those "playing" with this circuit.

I'm most interested at the moment in double and triple-checking the Pout/Pin results.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2011, 06:45:46 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline JouleSeeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2011, 06:51:16 AM »
@ JouleSeeker

I am sorry if I misunderstood how you are measuring the output power. But how can you measure the whole cycle using a scope? The voltage on the scope is only valid at one instant of time and changes over the cycle. This is how I measure efficiency > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smOiVmKv9f8

I take a time window (2useconds typically) in which there are many cycles, to acquire a good value for the Mean power, both for input and output power.  Let me explain further:  the Tek 3032 math multiply function allows me to get INSTANTANEOUS power by multiplying for me Vin (t) * Iin (t) -- and this power waveform is plotted (red waveforms above).  Then the MEAN is extracted over numerous cycles.  Same for Output Power. 

Again, I'm seeking non-oscilloscope methods to triple-check the Pout/Pin observations.
Thanks Kee2 -- I followed your posts on the JouleRinger especially, months ago, which inspired developments of this circuit.

Offline JouleSeeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2011, 07:01:16 AM »
Here is a replication video from User itsusable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV4xMeZ_41Y

Seems it is not so easy to measure the output power in his case.

Regards, Stefan.

I appreciate Itsu's efforts (vid).  VERY true -- "it is not so easy to measure the output power in his case."  Again the importance of non-scope methods to check and verify.

@hyiq:
Quote
Only one way to show this is OU, is to self-power then power a load if possible. Measuring this type of wave form is always going to be a problem even with the most sophisticated equipment.

If it self Powers itself its OU. Its easy to get ones hopes up and then be let down by a silly measurement error. I have done it before. All the Best Professor and keep up the good work.

  Self-powering is a great method and demonstration, certainly.  The problem here (so far) is that the output power has a substantial AC component to rectify, also the output voltage (@ approx 7 volts using DVM, across  9.7Kohm Rout ) is larger than I like for the input Voltage.

Yes, I would like to see a self-running device, but I do not think this is the ONLY method of verification.  See alt methods I'm pursuing (discussed briefly above).

Offline Mk1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2069
Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2011, 08:33:04 AM »
@Joule seeker

Maybe it is time to recycle the OU term , maybe recycling energy could be a better greener image , for over efficiency circuits.

 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2011, 08:33:04 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Omega_0

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 437
Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2011, 09:38:02 AM »
Prof Jones,

You are indeed doing a work of great value and I respect your open-mindedness and understanding. I hope something interesting will come out of this circuit.

If you seriously consider heat measurements then you will need a high end calorimeter. It needs to be scaled up into watts range to be above error margins. The heat is not much in this version but the good thing with calorimetry is that you can leave it running for hours and have a cumulative effect. It is the final measurement for any OU setup.

I have another suggestions regarding measuring spiked AC besides the rectifier/filter method. There are true RMS meters that measure the true RMS voltages and are independent of waveform. (There is a very fine and accurate resistance inside them which heats up and its temperature is directly mapped into volts).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_RMS_converter

PS: I have no idea about their bandwidth ratings

Offline Pirate88179

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8362
Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2011, 12:48:37 PM »
Dr. Jones:

I am watching your experiments and can't wait to see what happens next.  Best of luck to you sir.

Bill


Offline JouleSeeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2011, 03:14:16 PM »
Prof Jones,

You are indeed doing a work of great value and I respect your open-mindedness and understanding. I hope something interesting will come out of this circuit.

If you seriously consider heat measurements then you will need a high end calorimeter.
It needs to be scaled up into watts range to be above error margins. The heat is not much in this version but the good thing with calorimetry is that you can leave it running for hours and have a cumulative effect. It is the final measurement for any OU setup.
...

  Hmmm...  I may have access to a high-end calorimeter.  But I'm trying to figure out just how one would use it.  Perhaps put the entire device in the calorimeter -- except for the output leg of the circuit (Diode + resistor Ro).  The CSR resistors are superfluous in this measurement method and are removed.   Measure the heat-rise for this "input" portion of the DUT as total Pin, using the calorimeter.  Then place the isolated output leg of the device in the calorimeter and measure the heat-rise separately, as total Pout.

Does this make sense?  I'm wondering where to put the toroid itself, in the input or output leg?  Perhaps that won't make much difference...

Thanks for the encouragement, also @Pirate.

Offline DrStiffler

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 610
    • Stiffler Scientific
Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2011, 04:45:47 PM »
With the potential of 900mW as stated in the PW article, I see no reason why a high end calorimeter would be required, although one used in bio work would dispel any negative feed back on the quality and accuracy. Again if capable of 900mW it can be done with a home build unit, foam and 10 to 20mL of water and a good indicator. Of course you need to setup a calibration protocol.

As far as what to put in the unit here IMHO are the possibilities. 1)Entire unit exclusive of the 1ohms unit in series with your power rail. Under this condition a number of possible results can be seen; a) The heat in the unit is below what the input measurement shows should be present, this would indicate one or more components are cooling, most likely the transistor as this is the most probable source. b) The heat indicated is above what is shown to be the input. c) The input and output are for all practical purpose equal (~100% eff.).
2) If cooling is seen a tedious protocol of component isolation is then presented and would take considerable work and circuit/component splitting to arrive at an answer. 3) The unit presents heat above input, this would be the most desirable and I'm sure you understand why.

Unless you want to keep the forums busy and people trying replications that do not have the required test equipment I might suggest this would be a great idea to find a calorimeter. Once you are assured of you digital reading as compared to the actual heat measurement them replicators can have a base line to work from.


Offline JouleSeeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2011, 04:47:11 PM »
Good to hear from you, Dr. Stiffler. 

Quote
Unless you want to keep the forums busy and people trying replications that do not have the required test equipment I might suggest this would be a great idea to find a calorimeter.

OK -- more pondering.  The simplest experimental test I can think of using a calorimeter -- place the ENTIRE circuit in a calorimeter with the only source of energy being a capacitor (say 10F) in place of the battery.  The available energy Ein is known from Ein = 1/2 CV**2.  Then turn the device on (inside the calorimeter) and let it run.  Calculate the total energy OUTPUT Eout using the calorimeter.

n = Eout / Ein.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2011, 04:47:11 PM »

 

Share this topic to your favourite Social and Bookmark site

Please SHARE this topic at: