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Author Topic: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8  (Read 505904 times)

Offline Mavendex

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #90 on: March 24, 2011, 07:01:50 PM »
Hello Mavendex
As a test you can calculate the value of a capacitor and put it in parallel with the coil. The reactance of the capacitor should remove the reactive power drain portion of the total power measured by the "Kill-O-Watt" meter.

Calculating the value of the capacitor:
Measure the voltage drop across the toaster. Measure the current in the circuit. Calculate power used by toaster P=IV. Subtract the toaster power (P) from the power (S) measured by the "Kill-O-Watt" meter. Whats left is the reactive power (Q) drawn by the coil from the power supply. BTW cosÓ¨ = P/S (Power factor of the circuit )

The reactance (Xc) of the required capacitor is
Xc = V2/Q   V = mains power voltage

C = 1/(ωXc) where ω = 2πf (f = frequency of mains) This should give you an approximate value for a capacitor to try.

Now when you draw power from the second "Kill-O-Watt" meter, the first meter should indicate an increase in power consumption. If it does not then you have a possibility of an over unity device.

:)

I'm sure this is a great method but unfortunately I don't speak formula very well. When we get this finished this week and Ill run some tests to see if I can replicate it myself then mabeyewe can all get in to skype mode and you can walk me thru it.

Mav

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #90 on: March 24, 2011, 07:01:50 PM »

Offline Montec

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #91 on: March 24, 2011, 07:48:02 PM »
Hello Feynman

After the toaster warms up the current should stabilize.  Use a DMM to measure the voltage drop across the toaster. The toaster should be a pure resistive load so the real power it uses is in watts. The same current flows though both the coil and toaster but the phase between current and voltage is not the same when measured across the toaster and across the coil.  The coil lags the toaster by 90°. ie The current stays constant in a series circuit but the voltage waveform moves by 90° when the voltage drop across the toaster is compared to the voltage drop across the coil by an oscilloscope.

The current can be calculated by putting in a know value of resistor in the circuit and measuring the voltage drop across it. Or just use a current meter in the "Kill-O-Watt" device. A clamp on current meter would also work.
Quote
So here you would use the E value calculated previously for the voltage drop for V, and you would use the current you measured previously for I just for just the powered-on toaster in isolation?
No, use the current from an operating toaster and coil circuit.

Quote
Okay.  What material capacitor is preferable?
Material does not matter just be sure that the capacitor can handle the voltage.

Quote
Okay that's a PI value not an 'n' just to clarify for the record.
Yes 2"pi"f was the intended meaning.

:)

Offline e2matrix

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #92 on: March 24, 2011, 08:01:26 PM »
Mavendex,  Regarding the wire guage size question I can tell you what is required by house wiring codes and for safety.  That doesn't mean it wouldn't work with less but it is a good guideline when it gets down to powering real loads.  For a 20 amp circuit 12 guage wire is required.  For 15 amp circuits 14 guage is generally required.  Those assume 120 volts.  Most houses could actually run if they had a continuous 2400 watt source (20 Amps x 120 volts =2400 watts).  That kind of power would if charging a battery bank into a large inverter could cover most usage other than 230 volt devices like stoves and HVAC.  If one had several Gabriel devices or one large one it could easily power a home if this all works out.  Fingers crossed :)

Offline kampen

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #93 on: March 24, 2011, 08:24:03 PM »
@ e2matrix,

Can You please calculate (AWG) and show us also for 220/230 VAC/50Hz (European household)
Section fuse is 15 to 20A rated. Main fuse is 35A rated.



Offline e2matrix

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #94 on: March 24, 2011, 09:37:30 PM »
@ e2matrix,

Can You please calculate (AWG) and show us also for 220/230 VAC/50Hz (European household)
Section fuse is 15 to 20A rated. Main fuse is 35A rated.

kampen,  I knew the values for U.S. houses because I studied the electrical codes when I wired my own house.  I would have to Google to see what they would be in Europe.  I wouldn't want to tell you something wrong on that so I'd suggest you Google something like 'house wiring guage' +building codes for your particular country.  It shouldn't be too hard to find all the commonly used wire guage sizes used in homes.  I do know because it is higher voltage that they can get away with smaller wire size than you need for 120 volt. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #94 on: March 24, 2011, 09:37:30 PM »
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Offline kampen

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #95 on: March 24, 2011, 10:10:24 PM »
Mains wiring in USA 120VAC 60Hz:

Most US household circuits are 15 amp (15 amp receptacles, 14 guage wire, 15 amp breaker or fuse).
The wiring in the walls is at least 14 gauge (better yet 12) as that's the minimum allowed by the NEC for 15 Amp breaker circuits.
Today's code requires 20 amp (12 guage wire and 20 amp recepticles) in kitchens and dining rooms. Today'd code needs 12 guage wire to bathroom outlets, although these are usually 15 amp outlets so one should not exceed 15 amps.

Copper wire resistance table for some wires used in main wiring applications:

AWG   Feet/Ohm  Ohms/100ft  Ampacity*   mm^2   Meters/Ohm  Ohms/100M

 10     490.2         .204            30           2.588     149.5           .669
 12     308.7         .324            20           2.053       94.1          1.06
 14     193.8         .516            15           1.628       59.1          1.69
 16     122.3         .818            10           1.291       37.3          2.68
 18       76.8        1.30              5           1.024       23.4          4.27

The wire thickness used in USA for mains wiring are specified in unit called AWG.
Here is some data on different

AWG   Feet/Ohm  Ohms/100ft  Ampacity*   mm^2   Meters/Ohm  Ohms/100M

 10      490.2       .204           30             2.588      149.5          .669
 12      308.7       .324           20             2.053        94.1         1.06
 14      193.8       .516           15             1.628        59.1         1.69
 16      122.3       .818           10             1.291        37.3         2.68
 18        76.8       1.30            5             1.024        23.4         4.27
 20        48.1       2.08            3.3           0.812        14.7         6.82
 22        30.3       3.30            2.1           0.644         9.24       10.8
 24        19.1       5.24            1.3           0.511         5.82       17.2
 26        12.0       8.32            0.8           0.405         3.66       27.3
 28        7.55       13.2            0.5           0.321         2.30       43.4

These Ohms / Distance figures are for a round trip circuit.
Specifications are for copper wire at 77 degrees Fahrenheit or 25 degrees Celsius.

The size of wire inside wall:

                Gauge           Amps
                14                15
                12                20
                10                30
                 8                 40
                 6                 65

Mains wiring in Europe 220/230VAC 50Hz:

Within the European Community the mains voltage is currently 230V +10/-6% (50Hz) between the LIVE and the NEUTRAL terminals, together with a separate protective EARTH terminal. The history for 50 Hz frequency is form Germany. At the beginning of 1900 in Germany, AEG had a virtual monopoly on lectrical power systems. AEG decided to use 50 Hz and this standard spread to the rest of the continent.

The mains connections and wiring practices vary somewhat from country to country. In Europe, two wire (ungrounded) wall outlets supply maximum of 6A (10A in some countries). Three wire (grounded) outlets, maximum of 15A or 16A depending on the country (sometimes fused only with 10A fuse). All mains wall outputs are fused at distribution point in house. In modern installations in Northern Europe the wall outputs are grounded outlets often 16 A per circuit. In most countries system uses a star arrangement in which a cable from the fusebox feeds, for example all of the wall outlets in one room only. The fuses or more commonly, circuit breakers, are designed to protect not just the wiring inside the wall but also the wiring from mains plug to device devices and devices. So, there are no fuses in the plugs. The houses/apartments in Europe can be supplied by single phase power or three phase supply. If three phase supply is used, separate rooms in the same apartment may be on different phase.

In most European countries the electrical mains connectors are not polarized. This means that generally common 2 pin and 3 pin mains connector plugs may be inserted either way to the wall, thus interchanging neural and live wires going to equipment. The design philosophy of e.g. the German system (Schuko) is that a room (or a small number of rooms) has a 10 A or 16A fuse in the consumer unit, and all leads and plugs are designed to withstand any short-circuit current that will not yet blow the fuse (today usually circuit breakers are used, not fuses). If a fault occurs, a circuit breaker is trivial to reset, The fuses are generally in the main distribution panel.

Typical current rating for wires used in mains wiring inside wall in Europe:

    Cs.mm 1.5mm=10A       Cs.mm 2.5mm 20A (3Phase)

The wires used in extension cords and equipment wires are generally somewhat thinner because they are better cooled than wires inside wall, so can withstand more heating power.
The typical wire sides used in 3 core equipment cables:

Cross-     Overload
sectional   current
area         rating
0.5mm           3A
0.75mm          6A
1.0mm           10A
1.25mm         13A
1.5mm          16A
2.5mm          20A

In European countries power cords all have to be sheathed, which means there are always two layers of insulation around the conductors (or one extra thick layer).
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 10:51:51 PM by kampen »

Offline wayne49s

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #96 on: March 25, 2011, 12:56:44 PM »
As far as how the device works I think that Thanes Ideas are sound on this although we don't use 2 secondaries its just simplified down to 1 in Thanes model he uses 1 of the secondaries to transfer power to the second core and then extracts the energy here its pretty much the same its just layered so the primary is transferring power to the second core and then the bef is trapped in the secondary then all we do is extract the energy. Honestly I don't think it works any differently than Thanes model the biggest difference is that the secondary is getting the Full on flux of the primary vs. thanes model where its more spread out.

@Mav
I see what you are saying about the toroid being better to transfer the flux. My point is that the BEMF (secondary core flux) is seen by the primary according to classic electricity by Faraday's law because the primary coil encompasses the secondary core. But at this point, I'm happy your device works, and we can figure out why later.
Your generosity to open source and full disclosure is much appreciated by everyone here. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #96 on: March 25, 2011, 12:56:44 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #97 on: March 25, 2011, 01:26:21 PM »
Mavendex,

What Wayne says is very true,And no matter what happens ,You bring a very good feeling to this place,
And we are Quite Proud there are men like you in this world!
  Gabriel must be someone special,I hope your example helps to carry them through a wonderful life!

From the edge of the seat..............
Chet
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 02:11:00 PM by ramset »

Offline Mavendex

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #98 on: March 25, 2011, 02:04:33 PM »
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/Mavendex/2011-03-24_19-37-51_338_Kearney.jpg

Here's what we did last night got 1.6 ohms of resistance on the primary at this time. Did some prelim tests just to see if we have continuity and all that fun stuff, a quick power test to see where we where on volts, up to 180 at this time.

with out hooking up everything under the sun its Displaying excellent characteristics to the original model.

Ill do more in depth tests this evening, before I add more wire to it.

I did change from the twisted tinned plated copper to just a twisted pair magnet wire 16 awg, its cheaper than using up my nice wire and it seems to be working the same.

Thanks for all the kind words, there is a couple of reasons that im leary about patenting and more for open sourcing,

1. if the gov doesn't like it then they can place a gag order on it preventing me or anyone else from commercializing it, which would be bad.

2. the world needs this energy like 10 years ago, and there is no way I can source out what the world consumes by myself.

I didn't actually have a name for it, I work at a church as media director there was a picture of Gabriel so hence the name.

Mav

Offline ramset

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #99 on: March 25, 2011, 02:14:15 PM »
               



                   You Picked a very good name!

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #99 on: March 25, 2011, 02:14:15 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #100 on: March 25, 2011, 05:59:06 PM »
@Mav
I see what you are saying about the toroid being better to transfer the flux. My point is that the BEMF (secondary core flux) is seen by the primary according to classic electricity by Faraday's law because the primary coil encompasses the secondary core. But at this point, I'm happy your device works, and we can figure out why later.
Your generosity to open source and full disclosure is much appreciated by everyone here.



Hmm  makes me wonder if the outer shell is just that, and can take the heat.   Lets say that the outer primary can influence the secondary through the shell.  But as the theory goes, the secondary field never gets to escape from the inner core, maybe if super saturated, and if it cant escape the inner core, then no affect on the primary. Very simple.

There is probably another use here for the shell as a core. Ive just found it hard to find a function while thinking it might shield the secondary from the primary by being in the way, at least in some fashion. That info should be the last stone turned here.  ;]

Mags

Mags

Offline the_big_m_in_ok

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #101 on: March 25, 2011, 06:26:33 PM »
The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
Rather than start a new thread, I'll just ask the question:
Can one's electric bill be lowereed by back-feeding the output of a Gabriel Fevice to a wall outlet?  Either the same plug as the tap-off point, or, another plug on the same electrical circuit?
Thusly:
        ------------------------------------
        |                                             |
       \ /                                            /\
    Outlet -----> Current        Gabriel----
                       Limiter-----> Device

My thinking:
The sin wave wall current is always in phase,
and, the COP is supposed to be 8 or more.

Ultimate question, which I've never tried:
Can the hot and neutral leads of a wall plug be connected directly together if the whole power system is in phase?

If so, this should theoretically work?  I have yet to try with full voltage from the wall, but I do have several transformers to step down voltage.

--Lee
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 09:09:31 PM by the_big_m_in_ok »

Offline wayne49s

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #102 on: March 25, 2011, 06:38:30 PM »
If heat due to eddy currents is an issue in this device, in might be overcome with a material that does not conduct electricity, and hence can have no eddy currents, like magnetite;)

Hi twinbeard,
This is something that we can look as part of optimization after the replication/validation is done to give us a baseline reference.
/Wayne

Offline wayne49s

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #103 on: March 25, 2011, 07:01:52 PM »
Hmm  makes me wonder if the outer shell is just that, and can take the heat.   Lets say that the outer primary can influence the secondary through the shell.  But as the theory goes, the secondary field never gets to escape from the inner core, maybe if super saturated, and if it cant escape the inner core, then no affect on the primary. Very simple.

There is probably another use here for the shell as a core. Ive just found it hard to find a function while thinking it might shield the secondary from the primary by being in the way, at least in some fashion. That info should be the last stone turned here.  ;]
Doesn't the fact that the secondary coil gets the induced secondary voltage proof that the shell does not isolate the primary magnetic field to the secondary coil? I know that it sounds intuitive that the secondary flux is contained to the inner core and is isolated from the primary, but the equation related to Faraday's law integrates the magnetic field over the area enclosed by the current loop, and this includes the inner core area.
ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday's_law_of_induction

/Wayne

Offline e2matrix

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #104 on: March 25, 2011, 07:36:15 PM »
<snip>
Ultimate question, which I've never tried:
Can the hot and neutral leads of a wall plug be connected directly together if the whole power system is in phase?

If so, this should theoretically work?  I have yet to try with full voltage from the wall, but I do have several transformers to step down voltage.

--Lee
I'm not completely sure I understand the question except connecting hot and neutral leads together would in any case I can think of result in a huge spark and hopefully a breaker kicking open before any real damage happens.  I'm sure there are safer ways to go about attempting what I believe you are asking.  A grid tie inverter may be one.  They take a minute to make sure they are completely in sync before sending power back into the grid. 

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #104 on: March 25, 2011, 07:36:15 PM »

 

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