Cookies-law

Cookies help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
http://www.overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please leave this website now. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

Poplamp

poplamp

CCTool

CCTool

LEDTVforSale

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

OverUnity Book

overunity principles book

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

movieclipsfree

movie clips free

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 486573
  • *Total Topics: 14312
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 2
  • *Guests: 189
  • *Total: 191

Facebook

Author Topic: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8  (Read 449674 times)

Offline Mavendex

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #60 on: March 23, 2011, 08:45:02 PM »
ya my 2" inch N50 magnet gloms right to it and takes quite a bit of doing to get it off,

Its magnetic, electrical steel that they use in distribution transformers Is CRGO which stands for Cold Rolled Grain Oriented steel.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #60 on: March 23, 2011, 08:45:02 PM »

Offline popolibero

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 56
Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #61 on: March 23, 2011, 09:01:39 PM »
Ok Mav, thanks for clarifying!

Mario


Offline kampen

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #62 on: March 24, 2011, 12:38:56 AM »
@ All,

MAGNETEC Sales in USA

MH&W International Corp.
14 Leighton Place
Mahwah, NJ 07430 USA

Fon: +1(201) 891 8800
Fax: +1(201) 891 0625
magnetec@mhw-intl.com
http://www.mhw-intl.com

for ordering the NANOPERM M-416 Toroid.


Offline e2matrix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1755
Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #63 on: March 24, 2011, 12:44:00 AM »
I just called Magnetec, yeah, they say use the web store.   Talking on the phone with them was hillarious!  The answered the phone in German but they spoke English.  I had to slow down my rapid-talking American East Coast accent so they could understand me.  They were really friendly btw.

Use the Vebb Store for ordering! ;)    They said that's the easiest way.  They also take International money wire and Paypal, so you can also do email orders that way.

Anyway, I ordered an M-416 (150 Euro) and an M-412 (50 Euro).  After ordering and selecting Paypal, the total was 240 Euro, so the total for the two cores was $348 with shipping. 

The M-412 is just a smaller version of the M-416, but has similar specs (permeability, saturation, etc). I'm going to use the M-416 as a production unit ,  and the M-412 for general experiments.  If this whole thing turns out to be a bust (measurement error or something), I can re-use these cores for other toroidal power experiments like the Boyce TPU replication.

But I honestly think we've got something here, or else I wouldn't be so eager to drop $350 on Nanoperm cores.  Worst case , the cores can be reused for HV pulsed DC experiments.

Oh also, the woman I spoke to on the phone at Magnetec, Diana, said you can probably substitute the M-116 if they run out of stock of the M-416 (it's the same size, just of slightly differing permeability (M-116 is approx. double the permeability, half the saturation level)

Here's the specs of their "Universal" cores:
http://www.magnetec.de/eng/universal-kerne1.htm


@wayne, @e2matrix

Can you link me to the Metglas toroidal material / core that you think most closely matches David's Nanoperm core?  You guys probably know more about these specs than I do, I'm learning as I go here...
The way I was reading the German site I thought it would be 100 Euro's for shipping alone (to U.S.).  Glad it wasn't that bad.  I'm not that up to speed on Metglas specs but I'm sure if you gave them a call or shot them an email with the model M-416 and maybe specs on it they could tell you if they have something that would work.  I did see wayne (forget the exact screen name) here say he asked them and they did not have an exact match.  In my experience you'd probably want to ask for an engineer at Metglas as a phone order person might find it easiest to just say 'no' we don't have an M-416 if you know what I mean.  Not to say wayne didn't try that but it might be worth a try as I think it might save some $$ and time over getting it from European countries (where prices tend to be higher - gas being about double there). 

  And yeah just like they drive on the wrong side of the road in Europe they also got their period and comma's backwards too  .... LOL   No offense to our European friends - just teasing a bit.


Offline e2matrix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1755
Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #64 on: March 24, 2011, 12:49:39 AM »
Good find kampen.  Looks like they carry Magnetec as well as other brands. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #64 on: March 24, 2011, 12:49:39 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline kampen

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #65 on: March 24, 2011, 01:10:34 AM »
The Gabriel Device wiring diagram:

Offline Feynman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 621
    • Feynman's Lab
Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #66 on: March 24, 2011, 03:05:20 AM »
Mav, sorry for asking again,

if it's rolled steel it most likely is not magnetic, for instance stainless steel is absolutely NON magnetic, so my question is does a magnet stick to the steel donut? (easiest way to find out)

If it actually is not magnetic than even a wood donut would do. Anything that keeps the primary winding at a certain distance from the secondary.

Mario

Steel's magnetic properties depend very much on how it was made, etc.    But steel is almost always somewhat magnetic. 

What depends is the relative permeability  , u,  (technically u/u0).  Steel can vary significantly in magnetic permeability from u=50 to u=4000.

See the permeability chart I posted earlier...

And See here:

Quote
Generally speaking, yes, steel is magnetic. But it should be noted that there are a number of steels that are not magnetic. It is necessary to identify a type of steel before inquiring about its magnetic characteristics.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_steel_magnetic

and

Quote
Generally the higher the nickel content the less magnetic.
All stainless steels will effect a compass but austenitic (300 series) won't stick to a magnet
...
The 400 series stainless steel (martinsetic, e.g., 440C stainless) is generally magnetic, while the 300 series (austinetic, e.g., 304 and 316) is not.

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=305611

Incidentally, Electrical steel and Cold-rolled steel have higher magnetic permeability than regular steel.


Now , if the device does not require magnet permeability on the outer primary shell, but requires low-to-moderate resistivity (decent conductivity), then copper would be a good choice for the outer primary since it's non-magnetic (low magnetic permeability).

I wondered myself if wood would work, but I think we are dealing with some sort of relative flux / Faraday-type phenomenon.   I think it's something to do with the ratios of magnetic permeability / electrical resistivity on the concentric toroids.  The only way to know for sure is to test .

@kampen

Thanks for doing that schematic; I believe yours is more accurate than the one I drew up.  I think my schematic had an error because the toaster was not in series.  Your schematic should be used as a reference instead.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #66 on: March 24, 2011, 03:05:20 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Montec

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #67 on: March 24, 2011, 04:50:53 AM »
Hello all
I may have an explanation for the observed effects. Watt meters and amp meters use effective resistance of a circuit to come up with a value. In this circuit that includes the inductive reactance from the coil and resistance from the toaster in series. If you change the inductive reactance of the coil then you change the effective resistance seen by the watt meter. So for a given input voltage when you increase the resistance the current decreases.

So when a load is plugged in on the second "Kill-O-Wat" you are changing the inductive reactance of the coil. Most likely the resistance of the load is being reflected back through the coil. So in effect this circuit is playing with the power triangle between apparent power, reactive power and active power.

:)

Offline Goat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 619
Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #68 on: March 24, 2011, 05:39:16 AM »
Hello all
I may have an explanation for the observed effects. Watt meters and amp meters use effective resistance of a circuit to come up with a value. In this circuit that includes the inductive reactance from the coil and resistance from the toaster in series. If you change the inductive reactance of the coil then you change the effective resistance seen by the watt meter. So for a given input voltage when you increase the resistance the current decreases.

So when a load is plugged in on the second "Kill-O-Wat" you are changing the inductive reactance of the coil. Most likely the resistance of the load is being reflected back through the coil. So in effect this circuit is playing with the power triangle between apparent power, reactive power and active power.

:)

@ Feynman/Montec & All

I've been watching this thread since the start and my original observation was that it looked promising but there's always that nagging measurement question, and this is where Montec might be right.

The only way to end the dispute about measurement errors in my mind (2 cents worth) would be to run the Gabriel Device using a battery and 12V DC/120 AC inverter and measure the C20 drain on the input battery while also charging a battery (or set of batteries) at the output and then switch batteries from the output to the input.  Eventually all batteries would either charge or fall flat while running the toaster at the input.

This method although not perfect because of all the losses between the AC inverter at the input and a battery charging transformer at the output would create a drain on the system but if it really is a COP=8 unit it should be able to demonstrate OU off the grid and prove itself capable of running itself while producing extra energy.

Regards,
Paul

 


Offline Feynman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 621
    • Feynman's Lab
Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #69 on: March 24, 2011, 06:17:19 AM »
Hello all
I may have an explanation for the observed effects. Watt meters and amp meters use effective resistance of a circuit to come up with a value. In this circuit that includes the inductive reactance from the coil and resistance from the toaster in series. If you change the inductive reactance of the coil then you change the effective resistance seen by the watt meter. So for a given input voltage when you increase the resistance the current decreases.

So when a load is plugged in on the second "Kill-O-Wat" you are changing the inductive reactance of the coil. Most likely the resistance of the load is being reflected back through the coil. So in effect this circuit is playing with the power triangle between apparent power, reactive power and active power.

:)

Interesting.  This is a good theory , one which may put the device into the 'measurement error' category.

Would a current clamp-on meter on one of the input wires exclude this possibility?  This will directly measure induced flux, and give a secondary measure of power consumption by non-invasively measuring the current.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_clamp

ATD Tools ATD 5592 60 Amp AC/DC Current Clamp

$103 online   

Compatible with many lab scopes and graphing multimeters. Use to generate current waveforms for diagnostic analysis. Also works great with digital multimeters. Small jaw opening of 3/8 or 9mm works in tight spaces. Low battery indication. Measure range: 0-60 Amps AC/DC with resolution of .01a.

http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Tool-Design-ATD-5592-Current/dp/B000OV31J2


P.S.  Some good data would be to measure the inductance and resistance of the unloaded primary, the toaster dummy load, the toaster dummy load plus primary, the unloaded secondary, and the loaded secondary.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #69 on: March 24, 2011, 06:17:19 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline teslaalset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 695
Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #70 on: March 24, 2011, 10:19:05 AM »
@Mavendex,

Did you ever measure the VAR values consumed by your prototype?
Looking to the theoretical model, it consumes a lot of VAR.
Your KillaWatt meter should have an option to measure VAR, I guess?

Offline TheCell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #71 on: March 24, 2011, 10:20:21 AM »
The 'Kill-O-Watt' Meter for measuring active power works fine for measuring the input power. (and nothing else is recommended here)
For measuring output power one should use a bridge rectifier , through a large cap, for measuring dc values at the output by simply multiplying.

These 'Kill-O-Watt' Meter alike devices measure  true rms of any kind of waveform . There are a lot of different devices in a household resulting in different kind of waveforms for the current.
1) A inductance results in a sinewave for I , which lack after the voltage.
2) Switched power supplies : the form of the current depends on the load , is never a sinewave
3) Power consumed by a load regulated through a dimmer...
(There is surely no constant value describing the ratio of Umax an Urms there)
If this meters where not that versatile a electronic troll like a normal consumer would not get any correct watts consuming value.

For measuring the output power, I am not sure, if the meter needs to be plugged into a wall socket for the measurement electronic must be supplied with the right input voltage to measure correctly.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 10:46:10 AM by TheCell »


Offline Mavendex

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #72 on: March 24, 2011, 02:19:55 PM »
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/Mavendex/2011-03-23_18-22-32_480_Kearney.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/Mavendex/2011-03-23_18-22-04_636_Kearney.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/Mavendex/2011-03-23_18-21-49_526_Kearney.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/Mavendex/2011-03-23_18-12-50_299_Kearney.jpg


Since I can't answer a bunch of these questions while I wait for my part to show up Im going ahead with the rebuild with more wire and the modified shell I started with. The Shell had another inch taken out of the center to allow for more room of the wire, you can see that there is a huge gap in the center and I probably have a fingers width (skinny finger) of space from the top of the wrapped nanoperm and where the top of the shell is on the inside.

epoxy has been drying all night should be ready for some wire this evening.

the links are to the pics on photobucket

Mav

Offline wayne49s

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 74
Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #73 on: March 24, 2011, 02:44:13 PM »
I looked into the "kill-a-watt" meters awhile ago because some posters mentioned they measured true power and found some that could display PF and some did not show that possibility. So I believe the ones that can do that would measure true power. Here's a link to one model (not expensive) that did that: http://www.weemscreeksolutions.com/Resources/KillAWatt-P440_Instructions.pdf

Mav: Do you know if your meter has that capability? Otherwise it may not measure true power.

/Wayne


Offline Mavendex

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #74 on: March 24, 2011, 02:47:27 PM »
Ya it measures true power.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #74 on: March 24, 2011, 02:47:27 PM »

 

Share this topic to your favourite Social and Bookmark site

Please SHARE this topic at: