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Author Topic: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8  (Read 450714 times)

Offline wayne49s

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  • Posts: 74
Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2011, 12:58:04 PM »
I got the following info from Magnetec:

"
We are pleased to quote as follows:

EMC-Core M-416

1-24 pc. ............ 140,00 EUR/pc.

(See attached file: M-416-01S_prel.pdf)

Sales conditions
Lead time: 10 pcs. from stock, otherwise about 12-14 weeks
Delivery: ex works (neither you tell us forwarder account or we will bill
 transport costs of about 150 EUR - depends on weight)
Payment: in advance
"
Anyone have any experience with shipping from Germany. The shipping cost of 150 EUR seems a bit high. Anyone know a shipping method / company that is more cost effective?

/Wayne

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2011, 12:58:04 PM »

Offline Mavendex

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2011, 01:32:11 PM »
they are just telling you its 150 euro for the core not for the shipping, they ship DHL and they don't speak super awesome English.

Shipping depends on the weight its about 2 lbs

Mav


Offline FatBird

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2011, 01:39:44 PM »
@ e2matrix,  'll correct what I said earlier about light dimmers.  They use either SCR's or Triac's and rather than pulsed DC I believe they use chopped AC.  Think of a sine wave with vertical sections of it chopped out.  So more like pulsed AC.  Having refreshed my memory on that it looks like it could have very interesting uses since it's slamming the power on and off suddenly in a way that looks like it will create vibrations and perhaps back EMF in some cases.  I remember how some light bulb filaments would vibrate from a dimmer that was turned way down.

===============================================================================================

Yes, Light Dimmers use Triacs instead of SCRs.  A Triac conducts in BOTH directions, but an SCR only conducts in 1 direction.
As e2matrix says above, the Chopped AC may work better than plain AC because the Chppped AC produces HARMONICS that
help things out.  For only $6 or $7 it is an inexpensive way to control the current.  PLUS, a toaster can still be used in SERIES
with the Dimmer for extra protection as an OVERCURRENT protector if desired.

.

Offline ramset

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2011, 02:01:42 PM »
Wayne
Just for clarity,Your price quote is on the same Part as this?
Mav
Quote:
I have them made here in Kearney Nebraska from L&S industries
4100 East 39th Street Kearney, NE 68847-3987
(308) 236-5853 you will want to talk to Jeff. the part is like 25 bucks you
will need two of them tho.

You can select your metal as well.
The tooling has been paid for... so just order it. no need to make it hard.

The M-416 with about 1000feet of 16awg wire will fit perfectly in the new part. "Like a glove."
 
You can select your metal as well.
The tooling has been paid for... so just order it. no need to make it hard.
----------------
25.00 bucks?
The way the US dollar is going ,That'll probably cost YOU [Euro] 4 cents?
Chet


Offline wayne49s

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2011, 02:24:48 PM »
Wayne
Just for clarity,Your price quote is on the same Part as this?
Mav
Quote:
I have them made here in Kearney Nebraska from L&S industries
4100 East 39th Street Kearney, NE 68847-3987
(308) 236-5853 you will want to talk to Jeff. the part is like 25 bucks you
will need two of them tho.

You can select your metal as well.
The tooling has been paid for... so just order it. no need to make it hard.

The M-416 with about 1000feet of 16awg wire will fit perfectly in the new part. "Like a glove."
 
You can select your metal as well.
The tooling has been paid for... so just order it. no need to make it hard.
----------------
25.00 bucks?
The way the US dollar is going ,That'll probably cost YOU [Euro] 4 cents?
Chet

No, The shipping quote of 150 EURO for the M-416 core from Magnetecs is to Canada (I'm based in Montreal). We're only about 2 cents above par $US.:)

I'm checking with DHL.. seems the cheapest to NA.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2011, 02:24:48 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline protein_man

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2011, 02:52:53 PM »
Just a few suggestions for the mild steel toroid that covers the secondary. Do you think steel wire would work? Or wrapping with a long thin strip of sheet metal, this would be a bit quicker for knocking out a test device.

Offline wayne49s

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  • Posts: 74
Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2011, 03:48:57 PM »
they are just telling you its 150 euro for the core not for the shipping, they ship DHL and they don't speak super awesome English.

Shipping depends on the weight its about 2 lbs

Mav
Are you saying it's 150 EURO including the shipping?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2011, 03:48:57 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Feynman

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2011, 03:51:11 PM »
@FatBird

Thanks for the info on triacs / SCRs.   If we can figure out the input/output phase relationships with the AC  (they are in phase) and we can do proper current limiting with a fuse, maybe it will be possible to do closed loop mode without complicated electronics.

16 awg is max 22 amps for chassis wiring, and 3.7 amps for power transmission.  So maybe fuse the primary with a 10 or 20amp fuse?

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm


If I manage to get a replication of the effect I'll probably scope the input and output phase to make sure we know the phase relationships.

@all

I called up Jeff at L&S Industries yesterday, but he didn't seem to recognize the part I was asking about (the rolled steel half-toroid).  I sent him a couple of pictures and I'm going to call him back to today.

As for the M-416 toroid, I was planning on ordering that today as well.  We'll see how good my German is, haha.  Maybe I'll Google translate  "I want to order the M-416 toroid please; I am a dumb American take my money"

Offline Feb2006

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2011, 04:14:51 PM »
MAGNETEC Webshop
http://www.magnetec.de/shop/show.php?main_kat=&kategorie=5&start=60&nr=

EU members:
Prices include packaging and shipment costs.
Without given VAT No. german taxes will be charged.

Non EU members:
Europe: Minimum order value EUR 30,00 plus 30,00 EUR shipment costs per order.
Others: Minimum order value EUR 60,00 plus 40,00 EUR shipment costs per order.

Offline wayne49s

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  • Posts: 74
Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2011, 04:51:43 PM »
MAGNETEC Webshop
http://www.magnetec.de/shop/show.php?main_kat=&kategorie=5&start=60&nr=

EU members:
Prices include packaging and shipment costs.
Without given VAT No. german taxes will be charged.

Non EU members:
Europe: Minimum order value EUR 30,00 plus 30,00 EUR shipment costs per order.
Others: Minimum order value EUR 60,00 plus 40,00 EUR shipment costs per order.
Thanks.. this turned out to be the easiest way to order.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2011, 04:51:43 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline e2matrix

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2011, 04:59:46 PM »
It might be worth considering for those in the U.S. to look at Metglas.com to see if they have an equivalent for the M-416.  Metglas is a quality manufacturer of high permeability toroid cores as well as other related things and have been used by numerous energy researchers.  It would likely save a lot on shipping as well as possible cost savings due to dollar conversion.  And keep the $$ in the U.S.

Offline Mavendex

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2011, 04:59:59 PM »
@FatBird

Thanks for the info on triacs / SCRs.   If we can figure out the input/output phase relationships with the AC  (they are in phase) and we can do proper current limiting with a fuse, maybe it will be possible to do closed loop mode without complicated electronics.

16 awg is max 22 amps for chassis wiring, and 3.7 amps for power transmission.  So maybe fuse the primary with a 10 or 20amp fuse?

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm


If I manage to get a replication of the effect I'll probably scope the input and output phase to make sure we know the phase relationships.

@all

I called up Jeff at L&S Industries yesterday, but he didn't seem to recognize the part I was asking about (the rolled steel half-toroid).  I sent him a couple of pictures and I'm going to call him back to today.

As for the M-416 toroid, I was planning on ordering that today as well.  We'll see how good my German is, haha.  Maybe I'll Google translate  "I want to order the M-416 toroid please; I am a dumb American take my money"

I just called him and told him its ok, to open source this. hes cool with it and is in the process of getting my tooling modified for the form fitting piece.


Offline wayne49s

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2011, 05:10:48 PM »
It might be worth considering for those in the U.S. to look at Metglas.com to see if they have an equivalent for the M-416.  Metglas is a quality manufacturer of high permeability toroid cores as well as other related things and have been used by numerous energy researchers.  It would likely save a lot on shipping as well as possible cost savings due to dollar conversion.  And keep the $$ in the U.S.

I tried, but couldn't find an exact match.

@Mav
Thanks for letting Jeff know. I'll call him today.


Offline Feynman

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2011, 05:25:40 PM »
I just called Magnetec, yeah, they say use the web store.   Talking on the phone with them was hillarious!  The answered the phone in German but they spoke English.  I had to slow down my rapid-talking American East Coast accent so they could understand me.  They were really friendly btw.

Use the Vebb Store for ordering! ;)    They said that's the easiest way.  They also take International money wire and Paypal, so you can also do email orders that way.

Anyway, I ordered an M-416 (150 Euro) and an M-412 (50 Euro).  After ordering and selecting Paypal, the total was 240 Euro, so the total for the two cores was $348 with shipping. 

The M-412 is just a smaller version of the M-416, but has similar specs (permeability, saturation, etc). I'm going to use the M-416 as a production unit ,  and the M-412 for general experiments.  If this whole thing turns out to be a bust (measurement error or something), I can re-use these cores for other toroidal power experiments like the Boyce TPU replication.

But I honestly think we've got something here, or else I wouldn't be so eager to drop $350 on Nanoperm cores.  Worst case , the cores can be reused for HV pulsed DC experiments.

Oh also, the woman I spoke to on the phone at Magnetec, Diana, said you can probably substitute the M-116 if they run out of stock of the M-416 (it's the same size, just of slightly differing permeability (M-116 is approx. double the permeability, half the saturation level)

Here's the specs of their "Universal" cores:
http://www.magnetec.de/eng/universal-kerne1.htm


@wayne, @e2matrix

Can you link me to the Metglas toroidal material / core that you think most closely matches David's Nanoperm core?  You guys probably know more about these specs than I do, I'm learning as I go here... 


Offline teslaalset

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2011, 05:43:28 PM »
I've been looking a bit more in detail how the device is suppose to work, and I don't believe this device works according to Thane's approach. To avoid the BEMF to the primary, Thane's approach was to move some of the magnetic flux from the secondary to a separate core (the secondary core). This requires that the secondary coil be wound over the 2 cores as pictured above. If you look at the Garbriel device, it is exactly the opposite; it is the primary core that encapsulates the 2 cores concentrically. According to Faraday's law, the magnetic flux from the secondary coil will impact and generate a BEMF in the primary coil since the primary coil turns are wrapped over the secondary core also.

If we were to apply Thane's approach to the toroid configuration, the primary and secondary coils would be switched (i.e. the primary on the inside toroid), and the higher permeability core on the outside also. In this way the outside secondary core would absorb most of the secondary flux and not impact on the interior primary coil to generate the BEMF.

Assuming we can replicate the results, it may be a lot tougher to explain how the device works, lol! If anyone sees something wrong in the analysis, let me know.

/Wayne

Hi Wayne,

I'll have a look at his claims just to make sure.

I am not sure I understand the meaning of the primary core, the metal donut shell.
If I am correct this can be a plastic shell as well? Maybe even preferred....

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2011, 05:43:28 PM »

 

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