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Author Topic: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8  (Read 467956 times)

Offline FatBird

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2011, 12:11:02 AM »
Instead of using a toaster in series to reduce the voltage to the Toroid, how about using a
$6 Light Dimmer.  Or for an Inductive Load, a person could use the kind of Dimmer that
controls the speed of Ceiling Fans.

.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2011, 12:11:02 AM »

Offline Thaelin

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2011, 01:32:26 AM »
   Incandescent lights only as it says on it. Just blow it out
and so a waste of money.

thay


Offline FatBird

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2011, 02:19:05 AM »
 @ Thaelin,      Incandescent lights only as it says on it. Just blow it out and so a waste of money.

============================================================================

I have used Light Dimmers to control TRANSFORMERS NUMEROUS times and the Dimmer has NEVER burned out.

Don't guess about it.  It only costs $6 to try it yourself.  IT WORKS FOR ME!!

.


Offline twinbeard

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2011, 02:44:05 AM »
This is little more that a rheostat, correct?  Or is there something else in there?


Offline Feynman

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2011, 02:49:29 AM »
@Fatbird

Quote
However, I see a wiring mistake.

Take a look at the toaster.  The toaster is NOT in series with the toroid.
The BLUE wire from the toroid not only goes to the toaster, but it also goes directly to the wall outlet.
The way the diagram is drawn, the toaster is NOT in series with the toroid.

Can someone contact the originator to see what he has to say?
-Fatbird

The diagram was made to my best understanding of this device at-present.  I only learned about this device today. There may be errors in my diagram, which I made from the description in the PESN article -- if there are errors I will update the diagram to version 1.1.   I think you might be right , particularly if the toaster is supposed to be in series.

If this is true, then the blue wire coming out of the purple toroid primary should actually be labeled 'red' as hot, which should then connect down to the toaster's hot lead directly; the toaster's neutral lead should then thus connect back to the surge suppressor neutral plug with a blue wire.

Before publishing it, I send it to David (the inventor) for review.  He said it was correct , here are his exact words:
Quote
"
1) I have attached a drawing I did;  Can you confirm this is correct?"
-Feynman

Quote
it is mostly correct your toaster is actually a snack master grill thing I picked up at good will for 6 bucks, it has a power usage of 750 watts but I could only get it to use 3.5 amps of that instead of the 6.5 it requires to run....(which is anomalous)

the connections look good, I would use more wire on your primary and secondary to combat the crash, in the neighbor hood of 800 to 1000 feet this will make a more stable reaction.
-David (the inventor)

I will update the diagram tomorrow, since I think you might be right FatBird, that the toaster should be in series with the primary.  We'll look into it.

Quote
Instead of using a toaster in series to reduce the voltage to the Toroid, how about using a
$6 Light Dimmer.  Or for an Inductive Load, a person could use the kind of Dimmer that
controls the speed of Ceiling Fans.

I don't think the purpose was to reduce the voltage to toroid primary; I think it was to limit current through the toroid primary to prevent damage to the primary windings.  On top of this, if the primary draw current exceeds the surge suppressor limit (whatever that is), then the surge suppressor's internal circuit breaker should trip , preventing the windings from starting a fire if they exceed the power strip's ampere limit.   Frying your windings sucks, especially since they are tedious to do!

Anyway I will review this carefully, talk to David , and post an updated experimental schematic of that image tomorrow mid-day.  Feel free to update and post your interpretation of the schematic , and we'll review it with David as we go.

Sincerely,
Feynman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2011, 02:49:29 AM »
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Offline e2matrix

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2011, 02:51:20 AM »
Light dimmers use an SCR and a few other components usually beside the potentiometer.  It's not just a Rheostat.  Like Fatbird says they are cheap as they are very common and are a neat way to control power for some things.  However I think the output is pulsed DC isn't it Fatbird?  So it may or may not work for this device. 

Offline twinbeard

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2011, 02:55:33 AM »
@Fatbird


Before publishing it, I send it to David (the inventor) for review.  He said it was correct , here are his exact words:
I will update the diagram tomorrow, since I think you might be right FatBird, that the toaster should be in series with the primary.  We'll look into it.



I would think that its acting as a current limiting resistor.  If so, a beefy rheostat should do the job.  Something like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/LARGE-OHMITE-250-OHM-RHEOSTAT-2-SHAFT-/400117815200

although perhaps a different impedance value.  What is the impedance of the toaster? :)
***edit***

just read your last post, e2matrix.  SCR too?  that should be scalable with the rheostat to the proper voltage and current levels, eh?

Cheers,
Twinbeard

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2011, 02:55:33 AM »
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Offline Feynman

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2011, 02:55:50 AM »
The input to the device is 120VAC 60hz, the output from the device is 120VAC 60hz -- just at higher amperage.  From what I understand, the winding ratios are 1:1 so the voltage stays the same. I don't know the phase relationship between the input and output phase, but I assume it's probably standard consistent with a toroidal current transformer, so just look that up until we can get scope traces.

The only thing 'special' from what I can tell so far is we are canceling the back-EMF via Heins method by exploiting a difference in magnetic permeability.  The forward EMF magnetic flux goes into the high-permeability nanoperm core, the back-EMF magnetic flux stays in the outer core.  That statement may be subject to change , but that's how I understand it at the moment.

That said, an SCR seems to be a good idea for controlling input. 

Offline rensseak

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2011, 03:11:45 AM »

Offline ramset

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2011, 03:40:56 AM »
Mav
Quote:
Aye, Im just trying to help everyone get a good result is all plus new ideas is what makes it better and better and better.

with a light weight power source anything is pretty much possible.

Mav
-----------------------------
Mav
The stuff dreams are made of [light weight power ]!
Thanks a million for your efforts here!
Of course Wayne and Feynman also!

Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2011, 03:40:56 AM »
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Offline e2matrix

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2011, 04:18:12 AM »
I'll correct what I said earlier about light dimmers.  They use either SCR's or Triac's and rather than pulsed DC I believe they use chopped AC.  Think of a sine wave with vertical sections of it chopped out.  So more like pulsed AC.  Having refreshed my memory on that it looks like it could have very interesting uses since it's slamming the power on and off suddenly in a way that looks like it will create vibrations and perhaps back EMF in some cases.  I remember how some light bulb filaments would vibrate from a dimmer that was turned way down. 

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2011, 07:39:29 AM »
Mav
Quote:
Aye, Im just trying to help everyone get a good result is all plus new ideas is what makes it better and better and better.

with a light weight power source anything is pretty much possible.

Mav
-----------------------------
Mav
The stuff dreams are made of [light weight power ]!
Thanks a million for your efforts here!
Of course Wayne and Feynman also!

Chet

hey Chet

Who is Mav?

Mags


Offline ramset

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2011, 08:18:36 AM »
Mags
This is Mav [Mavendex post 7 and 14 this thread]
Quote:
I have them made here in Kearney Nebraska from L&S industries
4100 East 39th Street Kearney, NE 68847-3987
(308) 236-5853 you will want to talk to Jeff. the part is like 25 bucks you
will need two of them tho.

You can select your metal as well.
The tooling has been paid for... so just order it. no need to make it hard.

The M-416 with about 1000feet of 16awg wire will fit perfectly in the new part. "Like a glove."
 
You can select your metal as well.
The tooling has been paid for... so just order it. no need to make it hard.
Mav
-------------
The Inventer.


Chet

Offline teslaalset

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2011, 09:33:53 AM »
Just a remark on open sourcing this.
It's absolutely nice that the inventor wants to share this, but keep in mind that Thane's patent may still be applicable here.
So, if this one is successful, be aware of that.


Offline wayne49s

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Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2011, 12:13:28 PM »
I've been looking a bit more in detail how the device is suppose to work, and I don't believe this device works according to Thane's approach. To avoid the BEMF to the primary, Thane's approach was to move some of the magnetic flux from the secondary to a separate core (the secondary core). This requires that the secondary coil be wound over the 2 cores as pictured above. If you look at the Garbriel device, it is exactly the opposite; it is the primary core that encapsulates the 2 cores concentrically. According to Faraday's law, the magnetic flux from the secondary coil will impact and generate a BEMF in the primary coil since the primary coil turns are wrapped over the secondary core also.

If we were to apply Thane's approach to the toroid configuration, the primary and secondary coils would be switched (i.e. the primary on the inside toroid), and the higher permeability core on the outside also. In this way the outside secondary core would absorb most of the secondary flux and not impact on the interior primary coil to generate the BEMF.

Assuming we can replicate the results, it may be a lot tougher to explain how the device works, lol! If anyone sees something wrong in the analysis, let me know.

/Wayne

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2011, 12:13:28 PM »

 

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