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Author Topic: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2  (Read 37317 times)

Offline conradelektro

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Re: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2011, 06:24:23 PM »
@ibpointless2:

Just did a test with aluminium wire and distiled water.

My interpretation, we are seeing electronic smog.

When I connect the digital voltmeter to the cell, I get about 28 mV, and when I put the test probes of the digital voltmeter just next to the cell, I get about the same, 29 mV.

See, everywhere there are the mobile phone towers, WLANs and cordless phones. So, in a bigger town, you get about 500 mV (like ibpointless2). In a smaller place, like where my house is located, the smog is less dense, therefore 29 mV.

I see my own WLAN and cordless phones besides the rather far away mobile phone towers, TV-stations and WLANs of my neighbors. In an apartment building in a big city, you see lots of electronic smog.

I am afraid, ibpointless2, whatever experiment you do, you will see a lot of Milli Volts. Have a look, just put the probes of your digital voltmeter on your table without connecting them to anything. My guess, about 400 mV to 600 mV.

This also explains the erratic behavior, depending on where your body (a capacitance) is located in respect to the measurement.

But I will keep my cell shorted over night and will have a look tomorrow.

I just remember, when I put the probes of a digital voltmeter just up in the air in a flat in central Vienna, I got 1.6 Volt (yes, 1 point 6 Volt). I was ranting about electronic smog when I did that. I will do that again in a few days when I go and visit the flat in Vienna the next time.

Greetings, Conrad

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Offline ibpointless2

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Re: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2011, 01:03:31 AM »
@ibpointless2:

Just did a test with aluminium wire and distiled water.

My interpretation, we are seeing electronic smog.

When I connect the digital voltmeter to the cell, I get about 28 mV, and when I put the test probes of the digital voltmeter just next to the cell, I get about the same, 29 mV.

See, everywhere there are the mobile phone towers, WLANs and cordless phones. So, in a bigger town, you get about 500 mV (like ibpointless2). In a smaller place, like where my house is located, the smog is less dense, therefore 29 mV.

I see my own WLAN and cordless phones besides the rather far away mobile phone towers, TV-stations and WLANs of my neighbors. In an apartment building in a big city, you see lots of electronic smog.

I am afraid, ibpointless2, whatever experiment you do, you will see a lot of Milli Volts. Have a look, just put the probes of your digital voltmeter on your table without connecting them to anything. My guess, about 400 mV to 600 mV.

This also explains the erratic behavior, depending on where your body (a capacitance) is located in respect to the measurement.

But I will keep my cell shorted over night and will have a look tomorrow.

I just remember, when I put the probes of a digital voltmeter just up in the air in a flat in central Vienna, I got 1.6 Volt (yes, 1 point 6 Volt). I was ranting about electronic smog when I did that. I will do that again in a few days when I go and visit the flat in Vienna the next time.

Greetings, Conrad


The high milli amp reading was due to the fine tuning I did with matching the plates up, that why some cells went as high as 600mV. A normal cell just thrown together would produce a wide variety of voltage from 10mV to 200mV. I don't understand why I get so much resistance from people when I show them these cells.

I live in the country part of town, I'm surrounded by trees and nature. I even placed one of my compact design same metal water batteries in a microwave oven (Faraday cage) and I still got voltage. See picture below. And I don't get around 400 to 600mV when I leave my probes laying around, look at the picture below and notice that the RED probe is not connected to anything and the voltage is around 1mV (the cell is shorted out so that why the RED probe is not connected to anything). As I see it the voltage is coming from the fact that aluminum plates in distilled water produce a voltage.

The images are below


Offline Pirate88179

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Re: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2011, 01:08:41 AM »
ibpointless2:

Nice job on the Faraday cage tests.  That should put that one to rest in my opinion.  I am enjoying your work over here and I look forward to see what happens next.  If I were not so broke at the moment, I would be trying this myself.

Bill

Offline e2matrix

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Re: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2011, 05:12:03 AM »
ib are you using your meter on AC or DC?  Sorry to ask as I assume DC but I can't quite make it out on your meter pic.  I'm curious what sort of reading you get on AC if you are normally using DC.  I forget if you have a scope but if so have you put the output onto a scope yet?  I'm just thinking of things that might give some clues as to where the voltage is coming from.  On a DC meter I can get about 0.12 volts just by grabbing the leads.  If I set them down it reads 0.000 with an occasional blip to 0.002 volts.  On AC I don't seem to see much difference between me and background readings.  BTW my left hand seems to be positive LOL  (I'm right handed).  Lots of odd places to find millivolts. 


Offline conradelektro

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Re: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2011, 09:45:08 AM »
@ibpointless2:

I am not against your experiments. But I did the experiment as depicted in the photos of my last post according to one of your videos. I used aluminium wire and distiled water in a plastic cup, as in your video. And I am reporting what I see.

Today (after the "cell" was shorted over night):

When the aluminium wires are in the distiled water I get about 90 mV and when at least one aluminium wire is out of the distiled water I get up to 110 mV.

The meter is in DC-setting, with AC-setting I get zero Volt. (The meter has to be in DC-setting to see electro smog, acting like a diode receiver.) Today my readings are higher because air humidity is rather high today.

When I move around the measurements change drastically down to 10 mV, which strengthens my suspicion that I see electro smog.

I have no idea why you are getting other results with the same materials (aluminium wire, distiled water, plastic cup). It must be the location or the aluminium wire has some oxidation. It is hard to see oxidation on an aluminium wire, but it usually develops as a very fine layer. There might be some grease on your wire from the production process. I treated my aluminium wire with sand paper because it is 20 years old (left over from the construction of my aluminium garden fence some time ago).

It is also possible that your meter acts differently in comparison to mine. They definitely are of a different make.

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2011, 09:45:08 AM »
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Offline ibpointless2

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Re: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2011, 01:21:21 PM »
ib are you using your meter on AC or DC?  Sorry to ask as I assume DC but I can't quite make it out on your meter pic.  I'm curious what sort of reading you get on AC if you are normally using DC.  I forget if you have a scope but if so have you put the output onto a scope yet?  I'm just thinking of things that might give some clues as to where the voltage is coming from.  On a DC meter I can get about 0.12 volts just by grabbing the leads.  If I set them down it reads 0.000 with an occasional blip to 0.002 volts.  On AC I don't seem to see much difference between me and background readings.  BTW my left hand seems to be positive LOL  (I'm right handed).  Lots of odd places to find millivolts.



It is DC. I've tried AC but i get nothing. I don't have a scope, but I am looking to get one, does anyone know where I can get a affordable Scope?

Offline ibpointless2

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Re: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2011, 01:41:55 PM »
@ibpointless2:

I am not against your experiments. But I did the experiment as depicted in the photos of my last post according to one of your videos. I used aluminium wire and distiled water in a plastic cup, as in your video. And I am reporting what I see.

Today (after the "cell" was shorted over night):

When the aluminium wires are in the distiled water I get about 90 mV and when at least one aluminium wire is out of the distiled water I get up to 110 mV.

The meter is in DC-setting, with AC-setting I get zero Volt. (The meter has to be in DC-setting to see electro smog, acting like a diode receiver.) Today my readings are higher because air humidity is rather high today.

When I move around the measurements change drastically down to 10 mV, which strengthens my suspicion that I see electro smog.

I have no idea why you are getting other results with the same materials (aluminium wire, distiled water, plastic cup). It must be the location or the aluminium wire has some oxidation. It is hard to see oxidation on an aluminium wire, but it usually develops as a very fine layer. There might be some grease on your wire from the production process. I treated my aluminium wire with sand paper because it is 20 years old (left over from the construction of my aluminium garden fence some time ago).

It is also possible that your meter acts differently in comparison to mine. They definitely are of a different make.

Greetings, Conrad


The High voltage is due to me trying different arrangement of wire. I went through about 50 plates until I found some that would produce good voltage together. If its electronic smog then why do the cells still work when in a Faraday cage? I have played with your idea of electronic smog before but it usually required a diode somewhere because its radio waves. I do find it odd that you still get voltage when one plate is out of the water, when I do that the cell looses power. It is nice to see that your cells go up in voltage when left shorted out too. When you move around it might be because you don't have your plates glue down. Also try to have one plate barely touching the water and tell me what you get. As for the oxidation of aluminum it happens as so as the aluminum touches the air so it safe to say that both plates are oxidized.

Now one thing, instead of aluminum try pencil lead. Pencil lead which is graphite will work too and its not a metal. 

I don't believe the voltage is coming from electronic smog, but is nice to have someone put forth an idea where it might be coming from so thank you. Even if it was from electronic smog that would not be that bad because it would be like recycle electricity. I think something very different is going on here.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2011, 01:41:55 PM »
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Offline ibpointless2

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Re: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2011, 02:56:12 PM »
To help people better understand the same metal water battery think of it as a capacitor. A capacitor has two aluminum plates separated by a dielectric. My cells have two aluminum plates separated by distilled water, and distilled water can be a dielectric. My cell are capacitors that have never been charged, I don't recommend you charge my cells because it will harm the plates but they do take a charge. I never charge my cells because I won't the electricity that they hold when they're first made. My cells act a lot like capacitors, like when you first buy a capacitor or have a capacitor shorted out they sometimes still show voltage, they call this dielectric absorption. The true definition of of dielectric absorption has to do with capacitors charged up and then shorted out and once short is removed they still show a faction of the original voltage. Dielectric absorption is still called a phenomenon by most because it still not fully understood. There I believe lies the answer to my cells, not the dielectric absorption, but the fact that two plates put into a dielectric will produce a voltage. So the voltage I believe comes from the plates in water and we're seeing some type of dielectric absorption that didn't require a charge in the first place. The charge could be static or magnetic and thats why it changes for some. The charge could be coming it surrounding environment. The charge could be coming from the water, water still is a mystery to us just watch the documentary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOAnBg0PMUM&feature=related

I do think that a dielectric substance when exposed to metal plates will trigger a charge from somewhere or something.  :)

Offline conradelektro

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Re: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2011, 06:24:47 PM »
I just did some tests with graphite on paper and distiled water.

The measurements are totally inconsistent. The meter moves from - to + and from 0 to 80 mV. With two different digital meters (always on DC setting).

If I let the probes stick into the air, I consistently get about 50 mV (now at 18:00). This changes over day and night (I guess according to air humidity).

Well, I do not have any luck with this. It needs more patience than I can muster.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline e2matrix

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Re: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2011, 06:28:12 PM »


It is DC. I've tried AC but i get nothing. I don't have a scope, but I am looking to get one, does anyone know where I can get a affordable Scope?

I've gotten 3 of them off fleaBay.  All were good deals but just take your time and wait for the right deal, check sellers feedback.  There is enough of them out there it's not too hard to find a good one if you spend a couple hours looking.  20 Mhz or under should be an easy find for under $100.  One I got was a 400 MHz digital Phillips/Fluke for $350 all purchased about 8 years ago and I'll assume like all electronics they are getting better deals and lower in price as years go by. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2011, 06:28:12 PM »
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Offline e2matrix

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Re: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2011, 06:49:51 PM »
<snip
The meter is in DC-setting, with AC-setting I get zero Volt. (The meter has to be in DC-setting to see electro smog, acting like a diode receiver.) Today my readings are higher because air humidity is rather high today.
>snip
Greetings, Conrad

Conrad,  using a Fluke 87 on AC I get quite a lot of voltage just holding the leads in the air.  I'll have to take a look again to see how much but I've always noted quite a lot when on the AC setting.  That fluke can read fairly high frequency on the AC setting bit IIRC most meters I've got of lesser quality also see voltage when just holding the leads or laying them out. 
   That brings me to wonder if ibpointless is creating some sort of high frequency rectifier here that is picking up ambient energy or maybe even zero point energy (which I believe oscillates at GHz + frequencies)

Offline ibpointless2

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Re: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2011, 07:14:57 PM »
I drove around with my cells to see if they still worked in different locations. I tested them in places where radio towers and power lines were not close and they still gave me voltages. I even drove to a spot where I could not get any cell phone reception and I still got voltage from the cells.

As for the graphite test the jump around from positive to negative has shown up in some of my cell before. To fix that I found that shorted the plates out works best. Try to use graphite lead you get from mechanical pencils. The Graphite test was only to show that you don't need metals, some carbon items work too. I do thank you for taking the time to experiment on this.  :)

Its been raining all day and when I stick my probes of my meter up in the air the most I've ever seen is 10mV. 50mV is a little high, you might want to check the wiring in your house. Do you get the same reading at a friends house or outside far from your house?

As for the ambient energy idea I have tried heating the water before and i did see a increase of voltage(its affected by heat energy). It would be hard to believe that i'm picking of zero point energy but if you look at the Casimir effect you notice they have two plates separated like mine and they pick up ZPE, but there plates are really close together. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect
Unless somehow the water is creating a vacuum I don't think we could be seeing the Casimir effect, but they do look similar. --"The Casimir effect can be understood by the idea that the presence of conducting metals and dielectrics alters the vacuum expectation value of the energy of the second quantized electromagnetic field.[9] Since the value of this energy depends on the shapes and positions of the conductors and dielectrics, the Casimir effect makes itself manifest as a force between such objects."--




Offline conradelektro

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Re: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2011, 08:52:43 PM »
It looks like we will have a beautiful spring day tomorrow, so I will go to the woods with some setup (aluminium wire, distiled water, plastic cup) to make measurements.

I believe that ibpointless2 is seeing something real in his cells. But in my house the electro smog is just to powerful to distinguish any output around 10 to 100 mV from it. Also my digital meters are not really high quality.

@e2matrix: What I see at my house so far is electro smog, which could be too high for such experiments. The Zero Point Energy should be at Tera-Hertz, if it exists? But infrared could be picked up. They are now building solar panels that go into the infrared (is in an experimental stage).

Greetings, Conrad

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2011, 09:09:42 PM »
Conrad:

No need to go to the woods...use the Faraday cage (microwave oven) that you probably have in your home.  This will tell you for sure.

Bill


Offline ibpointless2

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Re: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2011, 01:48:09 AM »
If anyone is working on the same metal water battery cell I've found a nice trick to help get better voltage. You can have the same size plates in water and it will still produce a voltage but it will be the generic voltage of around 100mV give or take. If you want to see more power the trick is very simple, have one of the aluminum wires barely touching the water and the other aluminum wire fully in the water. For me my barely touching water plate is my positive. Let me know if this works for others.  :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: batteries without metal electrodes and just cheap graphite and TiO2
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2011, 01:48:09 AM »

 

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