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Author Topic: Joerg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging  (Read 111159 times)

Offline wattsup

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #60 on: March 08, 2011, 12:42:07 AM »
My first question when i saw his video is "How does he make the contact between his removable "magbat" and the base onto which he places it?

Looking up close I found that the red tapped end was tapped closed and the blue taped end was tapped open and there is a small metallic stem that is inside the blue tapped end. Then there is a wire on the base that is there to contact that metal stem. (See images.)

When the video demo started, he had already set up the magbat on the base and put that contact wire through the blue side needle hole. It was simply passed through the the needle hole and held tight enough to do the demo. Once he removed the magbat, that connection was severed so when he put it back on the base, he would have had to redo that connection point and hence divulge how he got his connection between the magbat and the base.

Then looking at his patent sheet 1 of 4, the magbat has an internal winding like in bucking mode to there are only two contacts required on the magbat as described above.

Then on his patent the wound coil comes out of the magbat and is in parallel with a capacitor bank and the load, so those two black rectangular containers must be the capacitors, but are they? That is the question. So if those two boxes are not batteries, then his device is truly a quandary. But if they are batteries, then this is simply a good show.

As to how it works, I have a theory but that's all it is, a theory and not really important right now.

wattsup

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Offline bolt

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #61 on: March 08, 2011, 01:39:03 AM »
interesting OBs but its all too much like the TPU. Nice videos to wet your appetite but the main meal is missing.


Offline wattsup

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #62 on: March 08, 2011, 05:49:46 AM »
@stefan

I am sorry to seem to break the party but I feel when I see something I must come forward and hopefully sooner then later.

I think I must clarify the above post a little more.

The image entitled magbat-contact-points1.jpg was grabbed before he removed the magbat. Notice how the contact wire is connected inside the stem needle hole.

Then the image entitled magbat-blue-end-matellic-stem3.jpg was grabbed just as he puts the magbat back onto the base. Notice now the contact wire is not connected because this would require some direct attention to that connection point. Something he would not want to do in a demo.

You see, the main crux of his demo holds because his magbat base only has one copper strip onto which the magbat is positioned. So automatically, one would say "how the hell is it possible to just place that magbat onto one strip of copper and have it work". But now we see a second contact point and this changes the game.

Before we waste another century I suggest you find out about them black boxes. (bb) If they are capacitors, then this is very good. If they are batteries, then this is very bad, or, there is a side-effect that is worth looking into.

So let's look further. Both meters where connected on the black boxes and they did show less then 1 volt when he discharged. Don't forget one thing, I am only analyzing this because I don't want to waste more months, but I can tell you now, it does not look that good.

At the beginning of the video we can see the load cap red wire was not connected to the bb. At 43 seconds he shows the Fluke287 that is connected in parallel to the bb and it showed .1545 vdc. He wanted to show us the bb was not charged. But what you don't know is he was shorting out the bb while the camera was on the Fluke meter. But the camera was on the Fluke to long and when he removed the short we see the voltage rises to 21.110 vdc, so the bb is a battery after all. Two in series of probably 12vdc each.

At 1.31 he shorts out the load cap to bleed it and shows .027 vdc on the green multi-meter (gmm). The load cap is still not connected to the bb.

AT 2.19 HE PUSHES THE ON BUTTON FIRST THEN HE HOLDS THE RED WIRE FROM THE BB AND THE RED WIRE FROM THE LOAD CAP AND AT 2.38 HE MANUALLY TOUCHES THEM TOGETHER. The On switch means nothing because the bb is a 21 volt battery and it does not matter if the switch is on or off, but he wants you to think it does matter.

You see the voltage rises on the load cap to 19.54 vdc.

At 3.24 he shorts out the load cap and we see sparks and the shorting wire does glow off the positive end. This is the curious part, that everyone will say "how can you charge a 1 farad capacitor to 20 volts in one second and then make that wire glow when it is shorted?

OK, does anyone have a 1 farad capacitor that you can charge to 20 volts and then short out with a nice wire. I think 20 volts 1 farad should singe the wire so fast and blow it up. Not just make it glow. Someone can do the test please and report back.

If you report back and the 1 farad cap does in fact kill the wire immediately, then we know his 1 farad capacitor IS NOT 1 FARAD. He could easily hide a smaller cap inside that big cap and make you think it was charged to 20 volts in one second.

If the report back is exactly as we see it in his video, then we have to take one step back and now we know there is something special here, but not before because the video does not give me good vibes at all. It gives me the trickery sensation all over again. We have seen them before.

Now at 4.19 the gmm is at .669 vdc just before he hits the two red wires together again. He holds them together much longer then the first time and the voltage rises to 17.30 vdc then when the cameraman sees he is going to pulse the wire again, the cameraman pans off the gmm on purpose while he flicks the wires a few more times to then bring up the voltage to 20.38 vdc. This is not OK to do like that but probably the bb power was dropping and he heeded more time to charge the cap, But you can realize the conscious effort on his part to avoid letting you see certain things is just troubling.

At 5.05 he shorts the load cap again and we see another glow of the wire.

The rest of the video he talks, lifts up the magbat, puts it back, takes a shot under the glass table but I could not see under the load capacitor.

In general I am very skeptical of his video because he obviously is looking to hide things and hide behind tricking with the camera, and, actually doing a very poor job of it. I personally think this is a dud,

Firs of all why have two volt meters at the same point. That was weird and he did not realize he showed 22 volts on the Fluke meter. He tried to trick us into thinking the bb had no voltage.

Then, he did not show the capacitance of his 1 farad capacitor. Since he was using such a big capacitor, he should have shown that measurement as well because the capacitor is bulky and could easily hide a smaller capacitor inside of it.

The test I mentioned above would put that question to rest. But if you want my opinion, a 1 farad capacitor charged to 20 volts would have just toasted the wire in half a second. So many things are not right with this demo.

Man, I love these videos, they are such a challenge. But this one was too easy. I do not believe this person is seriously authentic with us and would advise extreme caution especially if you are thinking of sending money, because at one point, that may be the goal.

If a new demo is done but with more measurements, verification of the capacitance of the load capacitor, measurement across the magbat base and then we see something out of the ordinary, then I will reconsider, but right now, I would say be careful because it does not look good.

Yes, I could be totally wrong, ignorant, blind, but, I love OU to much to leave any stone unturned, hence just making sure that our time and our attention is not deviated for another pipe dream. But deep down, I hope I am wrong, but hope is not enough.

wattsup

« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 01:05:37 PM by wattsup »

Offline i_ron

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #63 on: March 08, 2011, 06:10:19 AM »
@stefan

I am sorry to seem to break the party but I feel when I see something I must come forward and hopefully sooner then later.

snip
wattsup

Excellent observations wattsup! I believe you are quite right. It is a nice fit with my unease in certain parts, I mean if you did have something that worked as stated, why the poor, rambling, confusing demo?

And why so many unidentified items on the table?

Ron




Offline e2matrix

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #64 on: March 08, 2011, 06:57:19 AM »
Sounds like it would be a good idea if Stefan would invite him over here since he is apparently in Germany.  At least Stefan can talk readily to him in his native language and if he only speaks German then we could ask him to use Google translator or we can use it here on his posts.  But either way it would be nice to know his reaction to such a request given wattsup's observations. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #64 on: March 08, 2011, 06:57:19 AM »
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Offline gauschor

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #65 on: March 08, 2011, 01:09:10 PM »
He explained that there is no secret hidden battery within the 1 Farad capacitor (he was also mentioning an anektode in which he let his invention test other physicians and let them take apart the capacitor completely. There was nothing in it but the electrolyte and the aluminium foils).
Call me a believer but I think he is correct with that and the secret lies not in the capacitor or in the lead acid battery but instead only in the mysterious construction within the silver foil - which he hasn't disclosed fully yet.
We only "know" that he uses permanent magnets, prepared foils and a coil to make it work, but we don't know actually how he has arranged the parts. I admit I haven't read his patents yet. However from experience mostly  people do not disclose a very essential detail making their invention  actually work.
 He claims that not current itself is transported, but the information of charge separation. This information is transported much faster than the actual flux of current.
He also explained that if he puts in an ampere metere when charging up the electrolyte capacitor it would take very long and abandoning the effect. Therefore he can't really put that device into the circuit. Since this could be a new type of current transport this statement can be valid. He also said that he has observed this quick charging effect only on electrolyte capacitors and accumulators.

I agree though we need more details. Hopefully he will disclose them, as he has already filed different patents.

Offline neptune

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #66 on: March 08, 2011, 01:26:03 PM »
@guaschor. Please read previous posts . The Li-ion cells inside the silver foil are COMPLETELY DISCHARGED ,or the patents says can optionally be charged .@ Wattsup . 10 out of ten for observational skills . However if he has to fake it , HOW and WHY is he applying for an expensive Patent . Even Mylow , king of fraudsters did not apply for a patent .

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #66 on: March 08, 2011, 01:26:03 PM »
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Offline gauschor

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #67 on: March 08, 2011, 02:14:08 PM »
@neptune: there is no proof that the 2 accumulators within the silver foil are empty, regardless what Stefan said in the first page. For your information I am also a german native speaker and he (the inventor) does NOT claim that anywhere in the video! He only claims that the flat accus are empty. Nothing more and nothing less.

In my understanding the flat empty lead acid batteries act somehow as a buffer. However the 2 small source batteries in the foil need to be charged to provide some power (or in that case to provide the "information").

Offline 1

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #68 on: March 08, 2011, 02:21:32 PM »

I find the US patent very interesting  .. US2010159293A1.pdf

Has anyone noticed Claim 28 ….

Here he is talking about the ability of the ion cell (covered in magnets), to charge a galvanic cell  … ie lead accumulator, nickel cadmium, nickel metal hydride accumulator etc etc  (see Claim 30)  …

Quote
“28. The device according to claim 27, further comprising that the electrical energy released to the galvanic cell from the ion cell positioned in a magnetic field during a charging time t1 is less than the energy withdrawable during the discharge cycle t2 of the galvanic cell.”

Unfortunately the patent doesn’t include a timing diagram to show the relationship between t1 and t2  …  but it still sounds like a pretty bold statement to me.

Either t1 is much shorter than t2 and therefore the accumulator is going to go flat pretty quick  ...   and what is the point of using the system  ...  or this does actually allow more energy to be drawn from the battery than is supplied by the ion cell to keep it going.    :)


Offline wattsup

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #69 on: March 08, 2011, 02:42:26 PM »
First of all I do not want to create unnecessary commotions. You have to understand that this is exactly the problem as you mentioned about the M guy (I will never say his name again) that I know to well. We have seen this before. It will not be the first time someone patents something that may not work. Then making a good video is just to then show it does work and this video now gives your patent some serious meat to bite on. So the patent gives you rights and the video gives your patent rights some value.

Also, note that just before he shorts the battery, the voltage on the battery read 23.210 vdc. Then he shorted the battery showing 0.1545 vdc. Then when he removed the short the battery read 21.110 volts. This is a normal battery depletion but what bugs me is that he wants you to think there is .1545 vdc in the black boxes. This attacks his own credibility right away.

Then we have the position of the on/off switch. It is not a momentary switch that you press for on and when released it goes off. There was no volt meter after the switch to show it is even activating anything so the switch could be always open and never even on the circuit. You see, when he charged the 1 farad capacitor for the second time, his hand went to the switch but he pulled it back because he knew it was already on. Big mistake again. If that switch was always on and the circuit through the magbat was always connected, then why did the magbat side not heat up after all that time being on. So the switch is maybe a fake also.

Then there is the patent itself that calls for a magbat in parallel with a load capacitor, in parallel with a load. But his demo shows a magbat in parallel with a battery in parallel with a hand switched load capacitor. This is not the same thing at all.

The last point is when the cameraman looks under the glass table, it is so obvious there is nothing under the table. Anyone with eyes could understand this. But then why did the inventor put his hand under the table and place it right under the 1 Farad capacitor?

I know, it could all be consequential. But in my experience, nothing is consequential. Everything has a reason. All our actions have reasons. My own look at this stems from my high desire and hope for this to be real, mixed with my learned reality that so many are not and just want to trick us.

Again, I am not saying this is trickery. I am just saying that before someone jumps in the air yelling "free energy" or spend months on this, we better do more due diligence.

But the last last thing that bugs me is this. The inventor has a patent. With the patent, this protects him against others stealing it from him. So why all the secrecy about the magbat? What do you have to hide and why hide it when you have it patented?

wattsup


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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #69 on: March 08, 2011, 02:42:26 PM »
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Offline 1

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #70 on: March 08, 2011, 03:01:19 PM »

I have watched the video a couple of times and still am not sure what I’m looking at.

Not being able to understand German is frustrating also.

What I have done, is spend a couple of hours messing with an old Li ion battery from my phone.

It has been lying around the workshop for several years ‘for such a time as this’.

I checked to see if it still had any charge  …  and I was amazed to read 3.8 volts  …. despite having not been used for 3 years.

I removed the small charge control cct board, and then used a 12v 3 watt globe to discharge it so I could flatten it safely, but it’s charge held for 10-15 minutes dropping only .3 volts. I added another in parallel to try and hurry it up.

Obviously a 12v globe on 3 volts is pretty dim, but it took over an hour before the filaments had no glow at all. Then I put a dead short across it to flatten it properly (over lunch).

When I removed the short, the voltage was around .15volts, but started creeping up immediately  …  ending up at around 2.2 volts after half an hour.

I hooked up a couple of 650,000uF caps (yes 1.3Farad) and messed around with various combinations of magnets and no magnets  …  plus some smaller caps.

The caps would charge up to 1 – 1.2 volts fairly quickly, and when I left them hooked up for half an hour they reached 2.2 volts also. Removing the ion cell and shorting the caps and then starting again just repeated the process.

Sadly I haven’t seen any anomoly during the experiment, but would like to try several cells in series to try charging a battery.


Just one comment on the video  ...  if he was using six cells in series  ...  even if they had been discharged fully  ...  they quite likely would have crept up in value just like mine did  ...  and that could easily explain the 22 volts showing on the rh meter.




Offline gauschor

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #71 on: March 08, 2011, 03:30:40 PM »
Also, note that just before he shorts the battery, the voltage on the battery read 23.210 vdc. Then he shorted the battery showing 0.1545 vdc. Then when he removed the short the battery read 21.110 volts. This is a normal battery depletion but what bugs me is that he wants you to think there is .1545 vdc in the black boxes. This attacks his own credibility right away.

Then we have the position of the on/off switch. It is not a momentary switch that you press for on and when released it goes off. There was no volt meter after the switch to show it is even activating anything so the switch could be always open and never even on the circuit. You see, when he charged the 1 farad capacitor for the second time, his hand went to the switch but he pulled it back because he knew it was already on. Big mistake again. If that switch was always on and the circuit through the magbat was always connected, then why did the magbat side not heat up after all that time being on. So the switch is maybe a fake also.

These are exactly the 2 points which are also unclear to me:

I assume that he wants to show that when he shortens the 25V batteries and they go down to 0.15V that there is no amperage, otherwise the thin short circuit wire would melt at this point already. In my view the same principle is shown here as if you are working with electrostatic potentials: voltage difference is available but no power. Therefore I think he has only got a potential difference of 22V.

Then the position of the switch. The switch obviously separates the circuit of the black flat batteries from the silvercoated ones: however I am actually not sure if he switches the circuit on or off. He just says he "switches".

(I assume that he switches the circuit on so that magnetized/silver coated accus do their polarizing action or something like that. In my view the black batteries are probably obsolete.)


Offline neptune

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #72 on: March 08, 2011, 03:53:12 PM »
@Wattsup . It is almost always hard to follow a new technology . But human nature , and the love of money may be easier to understand . This patent , if the claims are real ,is    
worth several million dollars . But an investor is going to want to see more than a written patent and a crappy video . He will want independent validation as a minimum . Why spend time and a lot of money starting something that is bound to end in tears? If we can answer that question , everything else will become easy .

Offline gauschor

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #73 on: March 08, 2011, 06:03:27 PM »
Ok, now that I have read some of his patents I can see his written statement that the source batteries can be discharged. Ah interesting also that he mentiones that you don't need to use deep-discharged Li-Io accus: "[0041] Furthermore it should be noted that also possible to use non-discharged accumulators". Now the conditioning process is not necessary anymore? - this would at least solve some explosive headache trouble.

Also I'm unclear about the magnetstripes or wires to form an electromagnet. In one of his sketches he has shown a magnet with North aligned to the + pole and South to the - pole longitudinal aligned to the shape of the battery. Or is it a simple long magnet stick? And does each Li-Io cell connectedin series (in his patent) have its own magnet or is it a long magnet stratched over all connected cells (with poles only on the outer ends?...


Offline e2matrix

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #74 on: March 08, 2011, 07:14:33 PM »
Just a couple notes.  Since I've used Li-Ion cells a lot and keep track of their power in my usage they are nothing like NiMh, NiCd or lead acid batteries.  It is normal that they will recover a lot of voltage from a high use event or even a short if you don't damage them too badly or blow them up. 
   
    Another thing about this patent is that unlike many things that have been investigated here this one seems simple.  It would seem so at least with just a battery, magnets and a capacitor.  So one would assume it would not be too difficult to at least notice some anomaly by playing around with these 3 components that would indicate there is really something to dig deeper into.  So far nothing.  I did stumble across a patent that sounded like a similar claim recently (forget what it was at the moment).  Unless something major is being withheld in the patent I would guess we'll find the effect before long if there is anything really there.  So at this point I'd be pushing to get in communication with this guy to feel out whether anything is missing in the patent.  Any German speaking members up for this?   

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #74 on: March 08, 2011, 07:14:33 PM »

 

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