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Author Topic: Joerg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging  (Read 101285 times)

Offline neptune

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2011, 09:12:55 PM »
@e2M atrix. Thanks for answering my question . If we look at the above diagram , the cells are surrounded by what appears to be magnetic strip . One edge has a N pole and one a S pole .One can buy self adhesive magnetic strip on Ebay . To get two strips to magnetically attract , you need to buy two different types , A and B . This suggests to me that the strips are magnetised through the thickness , so type A has the adhesive on one side , and a N pole on the other side .Type B will have a S pole on the non adhesive side .{ I am guessing so A and B may be reversed .] The magnetic strip in the diagram has a different orientation .The sharp edges of the tape appear to be the poles . If I am right , we cannot use this cheap tape for the job . Other opinions desperately needed.

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Offline e2matrix

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2011, 09:37:07 PM »
Neptune,  that may be correct.  I'm not sure yet but from watching the video quickly (and still haven't let it finish) I thought I was seeing large bar magnets under the battery or batteries taped together.  I'm also finding that all Li-ion cells I have are encased in metal.  So they stick right to a magnet.  I just put one on a flat Neo magnet with N at the + and S at the - of the battery.  I've got a big cap across it but not sure what to do now.  I've charged and discharged the cap a few times and the battery has not lost any voltage yet (measured out to 0.01 volt accuracy).  I'm looking for something to run from it but far from sure if I understand correctly the concept yet so at this point I'm just tinkering with the hope of finding a nice surprise :)


Offline bolt

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2011, 09:43:47 PM »
This thread is only 2 pages long but its quite amazing that no one reads back TWO pages and reads the other posts particularly   on the magnetic strips.

Also regarding shorting lithium if you READ the patent he says he SLOWLY drained the cell down to dead. If you short it of course it will overheat and could explode unless the protection circuit kicks in. Also he says you DO NOT have to drain them at all to explain the effect can recover dead cells as well as working ones. The cells no longer work in normal mode so forget all about 3 volt = dead or 4.2 = FULL this is all meaningless when using magnetics to polarise the ions.

Well i done my testing on this today we need others to try it someone must have some magnetic strips handy??

Offline neptune

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2011, 09:48:51 PM »
@e2matrix . Pleased you are at least trying something . I am not sure , but I think the bag type cells used in model aircraft/helicopters are not metal encased . I have one or two if I can find them . I keep having a vision of a row of microwave ring magnets , of which I have many , with a row of cells inside them , but not sure if this is the right orientation . I feel that with this device , those who don't speak German are at a disadvantage .


Offline e2matrix

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2011, 10:06:05 PM »
This thread is only 2 pages long but its quite amazing that no one reads back TWO pages and reads the other posts particularly   on the magnetic strips.

Also regarding shorting lithium if you READ the patent he says he SLOWLY drained the cell down to dead. If you short it of course it will overheat and could explode unless the protection circuit kicks in. Also he says you DO NOT have to drain them at all to explain the effect can recover dead cells as well as working ones. The cells no longer work in normal mode so forget all about 3 volt = dead or 4.2 = FULL this is all meaningless when using magnetics to polarise the ions.

Well i done my testing on this today we need others to try it someone must have some magnetic strips handy??
Yes I tend to jump around a lot and not read everything.  But on the draining of the cells I mostly wanted anyone reading here (especially like I do) to be aware of the dangers with these cells.  Okay I'll go back a read a bit more ;)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2011, 10:06:05 PM »
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Offline e2matrix

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2011, 10:49:00 PM »
The only thing I could find about the magnetic strips was in the patent.   Basically it says this " magnetic strips with a width of 1cm on the outer edges of which a magnetic substance had been attached in parallel to the longitudinal extension of the strips.  The polarities of the magnets running in parallel to each other were opposed."   I hate it when you have a PDF image of text so no copy and paste.  But I typed that in hoping someone can see it better than I can. 
   From the patent diagram #3 and another statement in the patent it would appear there are strips on either two or possibly all 4 sides of his rectangular batteries.  I don't believe I've got any magnet strips but I may have enough small magnets to make a strip from them.  The rather big claims made in this patent and the relative simplicity of testing this make it worth checking out I believe.  It would be great if it was all this simple to get OU. 

Offline Staffman

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2011, 12:52:50 AM »
Not sure if this pertains to this or not... The only way I know to charge a capacitor really, really fast is using DC high voltage with high current. The only issue with this method is ensuring a high sampling rate to measure the cap voltage and disconnect the voltage source when done. If you do the calculations for charging a capacitor, calculate max Q with rated voltage, then calculate the time it takes for the capacitor to reach this Q with the High Voltage. Typically the time it takes to charge is the ratio of the voltages times the ordinary charge time. Maybe the motor in the Hempel device creates this high voltage?

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2011, 12:52:50 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2011, 01:33:25 AM »
There is no motor in the circuit.
These are just encased Li accumulators in magnets
charging up big electrolytic caps or
lead acid batteries(accumulators).

Surely you could also power a motor from it, but better first
charge up a few supercaps with it.

He said in the German patent, that he has removed the security
circuit from the cell phone Li batteries he has used.
So he uses the pure Li cells.

As there are 2 different Li cell type on the market,
Li-Ion and Li-Polymer maybe one type is working better ?

I guess also Li-Polymer is a bit safer...

Have a look here:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

I Quote:

Over-discharging Lithium-ion

Li-ion should never be discharged too low, and there are several safeguards to prevent this from happening. The equipment cuts off when the battery discharges to about 3.0V/cell, stopping the current flow. If the discharge continues to about 2.70V/cell or lower, the battery’s protection circuit puts the battery into a sleep mode. This renders the pack unserviceable and a recharge with most chargers is not possible. To prevent a battery from falling asleep, apply a partial charge before a long storage period.

Battery manufacturers ship batteries with a 40 percent charge. The low charge state reduces aging-related stress while allowing some self-discharge during storage. To minimize the current flow for the protection circuit before the battery is sold, advanced Li-ion packs feature a sleep mode that disables the protection circuit until activated by a brief charge or discharge. Once engaged, the battery remains operational and the on state can no longer be switched back to the standby mode.

Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week. Copper shunts may have formed inside the cells that can lead to a partial or total electrical short. If recharged, the cells might become unstable, causing excessive heat or showing other anomalies. Li-ion packs that have been under stress are more sensitive to mechanical abuse, such as vibration, dropping and exposure to heat.
Charging Lithium-ion Polymer

Charging Li-ion polymer, also referred as Li-polymer, is very similar to a regular lithium-ion battery and no changes in algorithm are necessary. Most users won’t even know if their battery is Li-ion or Li-polymer. The word “polymer” has been used as promotional hype and does not reflect special attributes other than to know that the battery is built in a different way to a standard Li-ion.

Most polymer batteries are based on a hybrid architecture that is a cross between Li-ion and Li-polymer. There are many variations within the polymer family, and the true dry polymer battery for the consumer market is still years away. Also know as the “plastic battery,” this system was first announced in the early 2000 but was never able to attain the conductivity needed for most applications at ambient temperatures.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries

    * A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
       
    * Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
       
    * Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
       
    * Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
       
    * Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
       
    * Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
       
    * Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2011, 01:51:53 AM »
Stefan, while I didn't see a motor in the video it does show a motor in all of the diagrams in the patent and states the the 'M' is a motor that he ran for 144 hours.  If I covered enough of the patent to understand it right I don't believe he states the motor is an integral part of the discovery but is a load for demonstrating it.  However knowing how patents sometimes intentionally mislead it may be something to keep in mind. 

  Reading a bit further (read I actually slowed down enough to get some details) I see he is disconnecting the batteries from the caps in a timed manner to put the load onto the caps.  This actually all sounds a bit like the Tesla switch setup that Patrick Kelly describes as being used by Electrodyne except for a lack of diodes. 

Offline bolt

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2011, 09:48:25 AM »
i found out more about this strip stuff. Its normally  isotropic magnetic material layered on one side with glue side on the other. What this means is the magnetic coating perhaps just 1mm deep has all its poles stacked vertical so that all the north poles point up for the A material and south poles point up for B material. So when they meet they stick together at any angle without alignment problems rather like velcro.

So if you buy this stuff most likely you must buy both A and B strips and either alternate the strips on the battery OR stick A on one side and B on the other. The precise layout is not discussed in great detail on the patent. I can find no material which contains horizontal N and S layered poles which i guess would be Anisotropic Magnetic.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2011, 09:48:25 AM »
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Offline sysrun

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2011, 10:55:36 AM »
Some details (in german): http://www.patent-de.com/20100429/DE102008053407A1.html

"Ein handelsüblicher Lithium-Ionen-Akku 2, hier vom Typ SAMSUNG SF US 18650 GR mit einer Nennspannung von 3,7 V wird bestückt mit zwei Magnetstreifen 1. Die Magnetstreifen vom Typ 3M 300LSE, Dauermagnetband MG01317 Plastinorm sind auf die Länge des Akkus 2 zugeschnitten und sich diametral gegenüberliegend parallel zur Längsachse des Akkus auf dem Akkumantel angebracht. Wie 1c zeigt, weisen die Magnetstreifen 1 eine sich abwechselnde Polung auf, die sich jeweils parallel zur Längserstreckung des Magnetstreifens erstreckt. Der verwendete Akku weist keine Schutzschaltung auf."

Lion Type: SAMSUNG SF US 18650 GR
Mag Tape: 3M MGO 1317 PLASTINORM

Offline bolt

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2011, 11:10:16 AM »
Some details (in german): http://www.patent-de.com/20100429/DE102008053407A1.html

"Ein handelsüblicher Lithium-Ionen-Akku 2, hier vom Typ SAMSUNG SF US 18650 GR mit einer Nennspannung von 3,7 V wird bestückt mit zwei Magnetstreifen 1. Die Magnetstreifen vom Typ 3M 300LSE, Dauermagnetband MG01317 Plastinorm sind auf die Länge des Akkus 2 zugeschnitten und sich diametral gegenüberliegend parallel zur Längsachse des Akkus auf dem Akkumantel angebracht. Wie 1c zeigt, weisen die Magnetstreifen 1 eine sich abwechselnde Polung auf, die sich jeweils parallel zur Längserstreckung des Magnetstreifens erstreckt. Der verwendete Akku weist keine Schutzschaltung auf."

Lion Type: SAMSUNG SF US 18650 GR
Mag Tape: 3M MGO 1317 PLASTINORM

You could have least posted a translation!


"A standard lithium-ion battery 2, in this type SAMSUNG SF U.S.
18 650 GR with a rated voltage of 3.7 V is equipped with two
Magnetic stripe first The magnetic strips of type 3M 300LSE permanent magnetic tape,
MG01317 Plastinorm are tailored to the length of the battery 2 and the
diametrically opposite parallel to the longitudinal axis of the battery on the
Battery jacket are attached. How 1c shows the magnetic strips 1 have a
alternating polarity, which are parallel to each
Longitudinal extent of the magnetic stripe extends. The battery pack has
no protection circuit. "

Lion Type: SAMSUNG SF U.S. 18 650 GR
Mag Tape: 3M 1317 MGO PLASTINORM


So i understand the magnetic strip now you MUST buy both A and B strips and and apply one of each to each face of the battery. In which case ebay has hundreds of sellers of this stuff. Batteries are best to buy Radio Control Lipo as they have no protection built in.


Offline sysrun

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2011, 11:22:08 AM »
"Wie der in 1b dargestellt Querschnitt zeigt wird der Akku 2 zusammen mit den Magnetstreifen 1 von einer dielektrischen Folie 3 umhüllt, auf der gemäß einer Ausführungsform der vorliegenden Erfindung eine Aluminiumfolie angebracht ist, die den Zylindermantel des Akkus vollständig einhüllt.

Der hier gezeigte Lithium-Ionen-Akku ist gewickelt, ähnlich einem Elko-Kondensator."


The battery  is coated with the magnetic strip with a dielectric film on which an aluminum foil is attached, which surrounds the cylindrical casing of the battery completely. The shown lithium-ion battery is similar to a capacitor.


@bolt: What you mean? "A and B strips" ?

The 300LSE-Tape is a simple double-sided tape. Maybe the "dielectric film" quoted above?

Offline dutchy1966

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2011, 12:11:06 PM »
Hi All,

Attached is a drawing from the (german) patent. From there it gets clear that the magnetic tape is stuck to the Li cell with double faced tape, just to hold it in place. The magnetic tape itself is MGO 1317 . It has has "lanes" of north and south poles along it length. This can be clerly seen in the drawing and is also explained in the text of the patent.
The tape is found here:
h**p://catalogue.3m.eu/en_EU/EU-IATD/3M_Reclosable_Fastening_Systems/Magnetic_Tape/td~Magnetic_Tape~MGO_1317/Magnetic_Tape#

regards

Dutchy


Offline neptune

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Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2011, 12:24:46 PM »
@sysrun.A dielectric film is mentioned , applied to the aluminium foil . Capacitor dielectrics can take many forms , air , mica ,plastic etc , or the paste in an electrolytic capacitor .Perhaps it is this paste being referred to .  Is it not strange how what appears as a simple device always becomes complicated .The devil is in the detail , as ever . This idea is special , as it probably lends itself to home construction .

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Jörg Raimund Hempel and his Ionic Magnetic Power IMP CAP Charging
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2011, 12:24:46 PM »

 

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