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Author Topic: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen  (Read 59029 times)

Offline lumen

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Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2011, 09:25:09 PM »
The heat is necessary when there is no chemical reactions, as it is the only possible source of energy.
Here we have redox potentials but without possibility of chemical reactions. Therefore this prevents a current to flow when we loop the external circuit at the electrodes. Nevertheless there is still a transition time during which current flows until the equalization of the potentials at the electrodes (then the cell is depolarized). This process is supposed to be endothermic and when we break the circuit, the environment heat allows for the re-polarization of the cell by a reverse process. It is what I understand from Karpen's patent and other papers.

Heat is used to generate the potential difference, but does adding heat really change anything?
I was thinking the potential difference is caused by the difference in electron activity of two dissimilar materials at the same temperature.
Whatever the temperature is, the potential difference always exists until it reaches absolute zero where the cell would finally stop working.

I could be wrong about this, but it seems to be more logical since heating the solution (or two solutions) would increase the activity of both materials and the actual difference in activity would not change but would remain near constant over a large temperature range.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2011, 09:25:09 PM »

Offline exnihiloest

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Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2011, 11:49:39 AM »
Does it help if you stir it?

Regards Dutchy

When I stir it, voltage and current decrease. I think voltage is due to ions concentration around the electrodes, and they are dispersed when one stirs them. It is the contrary of conventional cells where to stir removes the gas bubbles and enhances the functioning.


« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 12:13:00 PM by exnihiloest »


Offline exnihiloest

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Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2011, 12:11:34 PM »
Heat is used to generate the potential difference, but does adding heat really change anything?
I was thinking the potential difference is caused by the difference in electron activity of two dissimilar materials at the same temperature.
Whatever the temperature is, the potential difference always exists until it reaches absolute zero where the cell would finally stop working.

I could be wrong about this, but it seems to be more logical since heating the solution (or two solutions) would increase the activity of both materials and the actual difference in activity would not change but would remain near constant over a large temperature range.

Interesting question. I keep the idea for a further experiment where I will heat the cell.
In any case, if we suppose a Maxwell demon, to heat the solution should not increase the voltage which depends only on the type of atoms/ions. But it should increase the current because energy is consumed only when a current is drawn and heat is assumed to be the energy source.

Other completely different point: there is a possibility that oxygen from air plays a role (as in Zn/air battery). The system is not closed. So I consider to put the cell in an enclosed box where I will burn oxygen. If voltage changes with CO2 instead of pure air, a Maxwell demon should be dismissed.


Offline exnihiloest

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Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2011, 09:03:34 PM »
Today tests:

1) I put the cell in a container floating above boiling water. No voltage change. When the cell is charged with 100 ohm, the current drops to 0.3v in 1 mn. In my previous test at ambiant temperature, it dropped to 0.21v. The temperature influence is not conclusive.

2) I had screws of the same metal as my previous cathode. I took one and isolated it with paper. I made a cell by winding a copper wire as anode around the screw. Then I impregnated the paper with my NaOH solution. 
The voltage was about 1v which is what I had already by replacing carbon by copper in my previous cell.
When the circuit is charged with 100 ohm, the current drops very quickly then remains constant around 0.16 mA. When the circuit is open again, the voltage increases much more rapidly than with my previous cell. To heat the cells by placing near a soldering iron increases the voltage from 0.16 to 0.21v. Here the effect of temperature is clear.
It is surprising that in this cell with very close electrodes, the current is not more than in the previous cell. The electrolyte resistance seems not to be a problem.

3) More interestingly, I have put the carbon anode A on one side of my electrolyte container, and two identical electrodes K1 and K2 on the other side. When I close the circuit with a resistance from A to K1, the voltage between A and K2 drops also. When I open the circuit, the voltage of K1 and K2 slowly increases. The two cathodes evolve identically in spite only one was used in the circuit.
My conclusion is that the electrolyte is at about the same potential as the cathode, and what is important for the functioning is what happens near the carbon anode. I made the same with 2 carbon anodes and 1 metal cathode, but no special results, i.e the 2 circuits are almost independant, confirming that there is a very big difference in the actions of the cathode and the anode.




Offline yssuraxu_697

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Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2011, 04:06:52 PM »
It seems to clear a bit what this thing is, or what it is related to!

http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/varelec.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/borax.htm

"/.../ An interesting N type negative resistance effect that happens only when the tip of a very sharp aluminum electrode is just barely touching the top surface of the solution. This generates a lot of rf noise as the large misty area at the right part of the curve suggests. /.../"

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2011, 04:06:52 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline DeepCut

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Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2013, 05:12:40 PM »
Hello,

Ex recently made me aware of the Karpen battery, i am attempting a replication.

I have my sodium-carbonate, i've sourced a nickel electrode and am looking for a platinum one.

I will post updates/videos as i go.


Thanks,

DC.

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2013, 06:55:22 PM »
Maybe hack apart a used catalytic converter for the platinum electrode ?   

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2013, 06:55:22 PM »
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Offline DeepCut

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Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2013, 10:55:18 PM »
Maybe hack apart a used catalytic converter for the platinum electrode ?

Thanks e2 i'll look into that. I know very little about cars, interesting that the converter contains platinum.


Cheers,

DC.

Offline profitis

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Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2013, 12:15:57 PM »
dont waste your time with platinum,ive already done this,it gives a small kick on the microampmeter/ surface area.take nickel and silver electrodes(925 jewelery silver is fine) and shove them in2 sodium hydroxide solution(caustic soda)or sodium carbonate sol. and you get quite a kick.the nickel and silver will not corrode no matter what.

Offline DeepCut

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Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2013, 12:18:30 PM »
dont waste your time with platinum,ive already done this,it gives a small kick on the microampmeter/ surface area.take nickel and silver electrodes(925 jewelery silver is fine) and shove them in2 sodium hydroxide solution(caustic soda)or sodium carbonate sol. and you get quite a kick.the nickel and silver will not corrode no matter what.

Thanks profiitis but i like to confirm things for myself.


All the best,

DC.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2013, 12:18:30 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2013, 12:40:44 PM »
okdoke deepcut.to ensure that you get max current bursts let me make one suggestion for the benefit of spectators who want to try. you can etch the nickel surface by dipping into hydrochloric acid for a few minutes and rinse thoroughly and you can etch platinum surface by boiling in a mix of 3parts HCL and 1 part conc.HNO3 and rinse.this will allow max surface area.

Offline profitis

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Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2013, 12:45:48 PM »
chek my own version of related technology in my posted vid on the download section of this forum under the heading 'self-charging cap'. This cell is hundreds times more powerful than the original karpen cell.


Offline tinman

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Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2013, 03:49:44 PM »
@ Profitis
I thought we could continue to look at this here ,in the appropriate thread. I found this article quit interesting-
http://www.pnl.gov/science/highlights/highlight.asp?id=771.
 Maybe it is working like this battery or fuel cell?.

Offline profitis

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Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2013, 07:28:05 PM »
you have a sharp eye @tinman.the electrostatic attraction between gold and platinum large particles and nanoparticles forms the basis of a karpen pile indeed.that is why those catalytic particles will remain strongly adhered together.it seems 2gether they catalyse that fuel cell better than platinum alone.     


Offline tinman

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Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2013, 06:36:47 AM »
you have a sharp eye @tinman.the electrostatic attraction between gold and platinum large particles and nanoparticles forms the basis of a karpen pile indeed.that is why those catalytic particles will remain strongly adhered together.it seems 2gether they catalyse that fuel cell better than platinum alone.     
Profitis-Do you know what kind of power output the battery has?-probably a silly question.I only ask because this would give some kind of indication as to how much energy input would be needed to maintain the output over many year's.
I am still stuck as to why you wouldnt build this battery(as simple as it is)so as to show the first OU machine?. I am starting to see what i think the fuel source is,and although it will last a long time at this draw,it will eventualy be consumed,and the battery will no longer have any output.
There is a clock some where that has an atomic battery the size of a thimble(much smaller than the carpen pile) and it has been rotating those hands for over 86 years now. I will try and find that for you.
My point with that is,although very small,it can produce an output power source for a very long time.But because we know the power source,we know it's not OU-but just a long life battery
I will agree however,that if it has been running for over 60 years as stated,then it's well worth more investigation.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual batteries from Vasilescu-Karpen
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2013, 06:36:47 AM »

 

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