Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Custom Search

Author Topic: Joule Ringer!  (Read 833605 times)

Peanutbutter29

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #435 on: April 30, 2012, 04:30:44 AM »
Sorry to double post, but to make this separate.  I posted 2 videos (one still processing) that shows some improvements for this circuit that should come in handy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYL5P4V87Ok

*Fix for the negative bias against the base (potential failure point)
*Fix for the oscillation start up, now starts at 500mV
*Integration for frequency adjust with fine adjustments (raise and lower)
*Integration (in second video) for Capacitors to further adjust frequency (lower of course)

I think the pot connection is pretty key to guarantee an oscillation start and reduce risk of frying the B-E junction.

Thanks

hoptoad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1009
Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #436 on: April 30, 2012, 08:11:50 AM »
snip..
Input @ full light 16.5v @ .47ma (about 8w) lighting 13w fully!
snip..

Do you mean .47 Amps (i.e. 470ma) ??

If you really meant .47ma then your consumption would only be a miniscule 7.755 milliWatts not 7.755 watts, (about 8w) lighting 13w fully!   :o

Cheers


Peanutbutter29

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #437 on: May 02, 2012, 05:08:27 AM »
Ya, sorry for the listing incorrectly there.  I started with .47 and and changed to .470ma, but then must have accidentally erased the zero instead of the decimal.
So it was 7.755w

Also, I was able to get 11 of the 7.5W LED bulbs and try getting more power out of the system.  I think everything's covered in the video, but max power was 29.2w for the 82w total bulbs connected (though not quite as bright as connected to 120vac). I'll have to wait until they get more bulbs in to see if I can run more and might need a bigger source;  but the transformer should take a lot, if I can drive it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ncciyB6SKc

Thanks

Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5884
Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #438 on: May 02, 2012, 05:21:10 AM »
Hey Peanut

Did you rewind your transformer as Laser has shown? Or are you using a pre wound unit?

Mags

Peanutbutter29

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #439 on: May 02, 2012, 07:51:12 AM »
The coil I'm using is from an old salvage out of a 50Kva Laser supply from a local university.  This is a setup transformer (88mh to 480mh), though was not a high power section.  Also the output wires are 600v rated so it was not HV either.  Also, it was 60hz driven and is iron core, so not designed for HF.  The core is a "loop" laminate design.  Secondaries coils are wrapped on either side and the primary is wound AROUND (EDIT 2: it is possible these are wound on one end of the bobbins after looking more) the outer of both coils.  It IS left in stock wind configuration, I haven't changed anything with it.  Just kept it around because I thought it may be useful someday.

I have another couple, more common transformers;  I'll see if I can get those to work also. 

I believe the biggest loss in this design is from the core and low Q.   Since, the only magical material to solve this is restricted to military (heh, metglas);  the optimal design may be difficult to find.
** If we can find ANY amorphous core with a Square BH we're in business!  I have found 3 manufacturers but only contacted Metglas so far, with the usual run-around.  Otherwise there are some square BH ferrites, and then it would be to finding the highest Al and permeability with the lowest core loss per cm2.

I have an E-core coming that's a bit larger, higher Al and more permeability;  with the same core loss per set (overall area) as Lasersaber's.  We'll see if that makes some difference. 

Ultimately though, it seems our max output may be related to the Energy stored in the secondary (primarily in Inductance) and the maximum flux we can impose on the primary (restricted by transistor power, Impedance, volts, etc).  I believe with the Bias resistor we can drive the primary up to our source or transistor Temp max.  So, then it would seem the trick is to attain as high of Q secondary as possible to maximize output. 

just rambling lol,
Thanks

OH EDIT:  The primary is center tapped but not used here.  If you measure the inductance of either half, you get 9mH;  however across the ends is 88mH.  So the primary winds are in opposition (as pointed out in the earlier LED vids with this trans.), least that's my take.  I may have to remove that covering sometime to better see its' construction.

DreamThinkBuild

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 574
Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #440 on: May 02, 2012, 10:57:02 PM »
Hi Lasersaber,

Great work on the circuit, thanks for posting.

Hi Peanutbutter,

Thank you for your modification, I was able to make it work off a standard transformer with your bias resistor addition. I noticed that one 20watt incandescent light (15vdc,40ma) I can tap the resistor to positive then take it off it will continue to oscillate. For most though they did not show this effect in the current setup.

I have it setup where I'm popping pieces in and out to test so it doesn't look very pretty. (attached pic)

First off this IS NOT an exact replication of Lasersaber's. The parts I'm using have been salvaged from TV/CRT monitors.

The input voltage is 15vdc from ultra-caps.

The working NPN transistors I have tried are TD880, TD1426, C1061. All pulls from CRT's.

I went through a bunch of small transformers and couldn't get them to work with my setup. Seemed like the larger gauge windings the better. The current one has primary of 3.03mh and secondary of 2.7mh. I've got an e-core coming in so I can build Laser's setup.

Now something that is very interesting with this circuit is how it seems to match the load. If you place a bridge rectifier on the output and feed it to a DC motor as the motor speeds up the current drops but the oscillation(whine) will also increase. I used a standard bridge and a 18vdc Dewalt drill motor. It initially draws 15vdc,3amps but as the oscillation increases it speeds up and current drops to 2.89amps. This is unloaded so it's not much of real world example but I found it interesting, maybe someone else can try.

powercat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1091
Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #441 on: May 03, 2012, 01:29:32 AM »
One from Lidmotor Super Joule Ringer 2.0  -- My Replicationhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0fCQghOQ-E&feature=uploademail

Peanutbutter29

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #442 on: May 03, 2012, 01:20:20 PM »
@Dream, glad to see you got one working and the resistor helped.  It seems to guarantee about any coil can oscillate;  power out on the other hand is Q and Core loss related. 
  I posted a video giving light output comparisons with the same LED on 120 mains;  using a light meter.  I also explain more how the system works, and the resistor.  Also,  how to know if you can oscillate without a base connection.  Finally I show another improvement with the addition of a L3 coil AFTER the load.
All necessary measures are taken to show input, light, and then % base output. 
  Shows that oscillation without the base can be more finicky.  Just me changing my caps I've been using across L1 and L2 made the single bulb not able to oscillate without the bias tie. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw_-2c19YwI&feature=youtu.be
I've got part 2 uploading, but will list that in a new thread; as it's pretty well a different system.  Not possible without Lasersaber's base design!!! Ty again there.

Hope this helps
Thanks

27Bubba

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #443 on: May 03, 2012, 02:08:39 PM »
Impressive! The transformer you are using is single output secondary?

conradelektro

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1842
Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #444 on: May 04, 2012, 10:14:42 AM »
Air core Super Joule Ringer

I could replicate the Lasersaber Super Joule Ringer with a big air core (diameter of coil 255 mm, 200 turns secondary at base of transistor, 2 turns primary at collector of transistor). See the attached circuit diagram and the photo.

This coil stems from other experiments and I think the primary at the collector of the transistor needs a few more turns. When I find time I will play with different number of turns for the primary. My guess based on Joule Thief experience, about 20 turns will be right. Also the position of the primary on the secondary (near one end) is important.

As with the Joule Thief type circuits in general, the air core allows for higher frequencies (in the inaudible range), in my case it is about 300 kHz.

The idea of Peanutbutter29 to bias the base of the transistor with a resistor towards the positive rail works really well. It allows tuning. Without this tuning mechanism it is difficult to make the circuit swing. Tests with different lamps showed that the resistor should be near 1 K (up and down).

The circuit also works like a "exciter" (see the Avramenko plug with a blue LED in the midle of the coil).

Greetings, Conrad

powercat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1091
Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #445 on: May 04, 2012, 11:11:45 AM »
from Lidmotor
Lasersaber Super Joule Ringer 2.0 --With multiple bulbshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVHfruW22PA&feature=uploademail

conradelektro

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1842
Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #446 on: May 04, 2012, 07:33:52 PM »
Air core super Joule Ringer

I found an other coil from earlier experiments and could use it for a super Joule Ringer. Again I think that a lower step up rate from primary to secondary would do better (in order to transfer more current) and I will try it when I find the time.

The variable resistor between base of the transistor and positive rail allows to adjust the power consumption to a certain degree and also changes the frequency of oscillation. I set the power consumption  to the same values as in my previous experiment (6 V, 150 mA, ~ 1 Watt). Higher values are possible (e.g. 10 Volt, 300 mA,  ~ 3 W) but the brightness of the lamp was not much better (and the transistor gets hot easily).

It seems that one can transfer more power with a ferrite core transformer than with my air coils (but one has to accept the low audible frequency).

Greetings, Conrad

Lynxsteam

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 172
Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #447 on: May 06, 2012, 03:18:43 PM »
I love the simplicity of the Joule Ringer 2.0.  The usefulness of a small 12 volt powered circuit that can light multiple lights is a powerful breakthrough.  The fact that it self adjusts to load opens up the real possibility of home lighting run off 12 volts.  Very cool.

I wondered if the one transistor would work with an air core coil.  I do a lot of work with wind power and have been building controllers using the 2N2222 because of its non linear amplification.  The power in the wind is non-linear so this transistor type works well to capture available power in very low winds.
I built a small coil with a transistor/LED that powers a 14 watt CFL.  Very simple circuit.  At 6 volts the power consumed in the LED and CFL is less than a watt.  At 9 volts 2.5 watts.  I haven't tried 12 volts yet but my guess is that with a non-lenear amplifier, power consumed will be closer to 7 watts.  The 2N222 can handle .6 amps so it may work.  The Tesla type exciter doesn't draw more power as you add lights so the amp draw is limited.

Challenge:  see if you can improve and make this more efficient without adding components!

Thank you for your work and sharing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCbTVGYnWdc&list=UUGIblCTNadascluwDyRFobQ&index=1&feature=plcp



SkyWatcher123

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 844
Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #448 on: May 06, 2012, 07:49:53 PM »
Hi folks, Hi lynxsteam, thanks for sharing the lamp idea.
I happen to just finish a coil tower yesterday, though it has 24 gauge wire and is 9-1/2" tall X 3" diameter, it's a pringles chips can with metal bottom removed.
I'm going to make some tests starting with 24 gauge bifilar wrapped around bottom 1/4 of coil tower and see how it goes with your wiring setup, then try some different things just to see.
Here is a pic of the pringles chips tower.

peace love light
tyson :)

conradelektro

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1842
Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #449 on: May 06, 2012, 07:54:05 PM »
@Lynxsteam:

Nice lamp! That is how I imagined the use of a big air core coil in a lamp, it looks so retro.

I am impressed by the fact that the 2N222 does not become hot at 6V and 150 mA (I guess it also supports 9V at 250 mA for some time).

I just tried a LED (from the base of the transistor to ground) instead of the bias resistor (from the base of the transistor to the positive rail) and it did not work (besides, I am using the MJE13007 transistor). With my air core coils I seem to need the bias resistor. With the bias resistor the LED does not light up and does not make any difference.

Your trigger coil seems to do the trick. Nice idea to use three coils (primary from positive rail to collector of the transistor, trigger coil at the base and the big secondary just for the lamp). This circuit is so simple, but still there are endless variations.

Greetings, Conrad