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Author Topic: calling Maxwell's Daemon  (Read 47075 times)

Offline nul-points

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calling Maxwell's Daemon
« on: December 27, 2010, 01:30:58 PM »
i thought i'd share some encouraging results with any interested members of the forum who are aware of the implications of generating electricity from ambient thermal energy

this DIY cell & circuit combination has not only been self-sustaining its charge on-load since it was constructed - it's been increasing its charge throughout that time

in other words, it appears that it's possible to make a rechargeable battery which can get additional charge just from the heat surrounding it at room temperature - ie. the system is OU in the same sense that solar & wind power are

unlike solar & wind power, however, thermal energy is all around us, day & night, indoors - either as part of the environment we need for suitable living conditions or as waste heat from other work

obviously more energy could be converted from a higher temperature input


these tests build on a few things learned from my previous experiments, as covered in the following threads here at OU.com:-

   switched cap experiments
   http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4419.msg246787#msg246787

   anomalous 'self'-charge of capacitors
   http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9393.0

the latest tests also include some additional features, eg. galvanic action and thermal generation of electricity

the following graph shows the on-load terminal voltage and temperature for the galvanic cell-stack versus time (in hours)

as you can see, there is a strong correlation between the daily variation of the ambient temperature and the terminal voltage - whenever the temperature rises the terminal voltage of the system increases, when the temperature falls, so does the terminal voltage

eg. a rise in ambient temperature of approx 17 degC caused an increase in the cell-stack voltage of approx 27mV (see graph readings near 190 hours) on a cell-stack voltage of approx 1.8V (a 1.5% increase in on-load terminal voltage)


however, there is more than just a direct temperature relationship...

« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 06:46:36 PM by nul-points »

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calling Maxwell's Daemon
« on: December 27, 2010, 01:30:58 PM »

Offline nul-points

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Re: calling Maxwell's Daemon
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2010, 01:35:37 PM »
the temperature trend graph ('power regression for Tcell') shows that the average value of the ambient temperature has remained approximately constant throughout the test period - the trend slope shows only a very slight increase over the duration so far (9+ days)

however, the 'power regression for Vcell' trend graph reveals that, for at least this particular load, there is more external energy being converted to electrical energy than is being used by the circuit  - the on-load terminal voltage trend slope shows an increase with time

the stack was constructed 8 Dec 2010 and had an initial on-load voltage of approx 1.6V

so, at the time of writing, the mean on-load voltage has been increasing for over 440 hours (18+ days)


additional energy is being supplied from somewhere outside the system and the cell-stack is storing excess energy (ie. it is gradually 'charging') at the same time as powering the load

 - the system is enclosed in a steel case (effectively a Faraday cage), so it's not picking up radio transmission or 50Hz power;
 - the system is inside a case, and it continues to charge in an unlit room, so it's not receiving photoelectric energy;
 - the system is operating stand-alone, so it's not receiving electrical energy from a PC or measurement equipment

therefore, unless the system is receiving energy from some exotic source, such as cosmic rays, then the conclusion is that the external energy which is sustaining operation (& increasing charge) is being provided by ambient heat

a standard resistor performs work while converting electrical energy into heat energy

if you can reverse this process then you have effectively created a 'negative resistor', which performs work while converting heat energy into electrical energy

the system in the experiment described here is evidently converting ambient heat into electricity

it appears that Maxwell's Demon is alive and well!


an overview of the system follows...
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 06:10:02 PM by nul-points »

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Offline nul-points

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Re: calling Maxwell's Daemon
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2010, 01:40:03 PM »
cell-stack construction (2 cells in series):

for this experiment, i've used Zinc (Zn) & Copper (Cu) foil squares, approx 8cm x 8cm

on the top & bottom sheets (1 Zn & 1 Cu) i leave a little extra width of metal to connect a crocodile clip

each of the 2 cells is constructed like this (from top to bottom):-

+ ---- Cu
  ---- open weave linen serviette cloth,
       sprinkled with ~0.5cc honey:tap-water (~50:50)
  ---- (tissue) wrapping paper layer glued to Zn with starch glue
       ('Pritt' stick - safe children's paper glue)
- ---- Zn

the edges of each cell are covered with rubber tape which seals to itself when stretched

the middle Zn & Cu sheets (from the upper & lower cells) are first insulated from each other with a thin plastic sheet; then, in the middle of the insulating sheet, i make a hole and place a small piece (approx 5mm x 5mm) of folded copper to make the connection between adjacent cells

the cells are held together inside two outer layers of cardboard using a thin rubber band

i place two 12mm x 0.8mm diam. Neo magnets on top of the cell stack; the Neos are parallel and their N-S axis is at 90 deg to the current flow through the 2 outer cell +/- tags (both S poles towards same edge of cell)

Offline nul-points

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Re: calling Maxwell's Daemon
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2010, 01:44:10 PM »
as far as i know, this particular circuit used here as a load is not critical to the behaviour of the system

however, it is important to achieve a sufficiently high impedance load on the cell-stack so that the thermal energy input is sufficient to sustain the cell charge whilst it's operating the circuit

the current draw of the circuit is of the order of a few uA


circuit operation:

the load across the cell-stack is an LED flasher circuit;
the components were selected for a flash rate of approximately 0.25Hz

 - the cell-stack charges up capacitor C2
   via the leakage current of D1;
 - the voltage on C2 reaches the trigger level of the
   'discrete' SCR arrangement of Q1/Q2/C3/D3;
 - transistor Q3 is pulsed on,
   current is discharged from C2 through inductor L2;
 - as Q3 switches off, the field-collapse energy from
   L2 is directed via the LED to the 'ballast' capacitor C1;
 - C1 is connected back to the cell-stack, via inductor L1,
   helping to maintain the stack voltage

« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 06:26:08 PM by nul-points »


Offline exnihiloest

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Re: calling Maxwell's Daemon
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2010, 12:53:01 PM »

A Maxwell's Daemon is one of the most credible possibility for free energy.
Nevertheless self-charging capacitors are not a proof when electrochimical capacitors are used, because there are chimical reactions at the surface of the electrodes which can increase the voltage for conventional reasons.
Self-charging capacitors are not observed when the capacitors are not polarized and are of low capacity. It is a specificity of electrochemical capacitors. Therefore the origin of the capacitors self-charge can't be explained by a common phenomenon due to the environment.


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Re: calling Maxwell's Daemon
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2010, 12:53:01 PM »
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Offline nul-points

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Re: calling Maxwell's Daemon
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2010, 04:14:16 PM »
hi ex nihilo est

thanks for your comments

A Maxwell's Daemon is one of the most credible possibility for free energy.

i agree

the universe is a dynamic collection of energy from micro to macro levels - there are many opportunities to apply a manmade (or to benefit from natural) asymmetry to the 'random' nature of 'raw' universal energy with the result of usable power


Nevertheless self-charging capacitors are not a proof when electrochimical capacitors are used, because there are chimical reactions at the surface of the electrodes which can increase the voltage for conventional reasons.

i agree that electrochemical activity must be a factor in self-charge of electrolytic capacitors and it shouldn't be discounted


Self-charging capacitors are not observed when the capacitors are not polarized and are of low capacity. It is a specificity of electrochemical capacitors.

not so - results from non-polarised capacitors with ferroelectric dielectrics (eg. Rochelle Salt crystal) disprove this statement

Therefore the origin of the capacitors self-charge can't be explained by a common phenomenon due to the environment.

not so - my experiments with capacitor self-charge clearly demonstrate a strong thermal relationship between heat and anomalous voltage

also, electron tunneling between capacitor plates is a quantum phenomenon, with a temperature relationship and no electrochemical contribution

i agree that electrochemical activity can also be involved when there is an ionic-transport mechanism present


however, in the system i'm testing, only a small proportion of the operation contains any input from capacitor self-charge

i suspect that a large part of the (greater-than) self-sustaining operation is due to the thermodynamic characteristics of the DIY cell-stack


i've been running other tests with similar circuits but using conventional NiCd & NiMH batteries for most of 2010

although in my other experiments i was able to achieve a reasonably constant on-load terminal voltage for a similar length of time to the experiment described here, i haven't seen any evidence of a sustained and significant increase of on-load voltage for a similar duration, as i have with these tests

my earlier tests used commercial batteries with 150 & 180mAh capacities and the on-load terminal voltage had always shown a decrease over this duration

however, in this experiment, the capacity of my simple DIY cell-stack is probably smaller by a few orders of magnitude and yet it is operating an equivalent load circuit AND experiencing a storage of excess energy


at this stage of the experiment, the point is that this stand-alone electronic system, inside a darkened Faraday cage, is giving clear evidence of increasing on-load charge, over an extended period, with only ambient heat as the most likely additional source of energy

all the best
sandy

Offline nul-points

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Re: calling Maxwell's Daemon
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2011, 08:16:18 AM »
this stand-alone solid-state system has been operating for one month, driving the load (an LED flasher circuit) WHILST ALSO charging it's own supply battery to over 1.9V now, from it's starting on-load voltage of 1.6V


the battery is a simple DIY construction: a pair of galvanic-like cells which are recharging themselves merely from room heat

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Re: calling Maxwell's Daemon
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2011, 08:16:18 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: calling Maxwell's Daemon
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2011, 08:30:19 AM »
So, you're claiming violation of the second law of thermodynamics, that is, you're claiming that useful work can be done only at the expense of one thermal reservoir, right?

How do you prove that? By just observing the near coincidence of the shape of temperature-time and the voltage-time curves, is that it? It would have been interesting to measure the temperature dependence of the emf of an unattached battery and see if that regression curve you're showing of the voltage-time is non-trivial. If it is, as I suspect it is, then the ambient temperature differences as a source of the effect will be eliminated.

Why do you exclude, for instance, the possibility that the excess energy you observe is at the expense of saving from the input? I have observed such phenomenon when studying an RC circuit. Producing excess energy by saving energy from the input (thus, violating the first thermodynamic law) can also take place during the electrolysis of water in an undivided cell.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 09:06:44 AM by Omnibus »

Offline nul-points

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Re: calling Maxwell's Daemon
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2011, 09:05:09 AM »
i'm reporting what i observe, Omni

the trend of the on-load terminal voltage of this solid-state system is gradually increasing whilst the trend of the ambient temperature is relatively constant

yes, there is also an obvious temperature relationship (hence the correlation between the two graphs)

but the important point is that the battery is gaining excess charge over and above the temperature variation

this is a fact - this is what the data shows

i can also report that the behaviour of this system is NOT the behaviour of other systems which i've been testing throughout this year (NiCd, NiMH & a variety of DIY galvanic cells) driving similar load circuits

none of the others have shown the same extent of thermal relationship and sustained self-charge over this duration

[edited to remove mistaken ref. to chemical action]
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 02:47:01 PM by nul-points »

Offline Omnibus

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Re: calling Maxwell's Daemon
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2011, 09:10:31 AM »
No, I don't at all say it's chemical. What I suspect is violation of the first principle rather than the second. As far as I understand, your statement that "... the important point is that the battery is gaining excess charge over and above the temperature variation" seems to go along with such conclusion.

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Re: calling Maxwell's Daemon
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2011, 09:10:31 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: calling Maxwell's Daemon
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2011, 09:14:58 AM »
This, undoubtedly, is a very interesting achievement and probably there should be some additional measurements carried out on the system to better understand the nature of the excess energy. What is the order of magnitude of the current?

Offline nul-points

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Re: calling Maxwell's Daemon
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2011, 09:28:57 AM »
as it happens i made three cells to the same construction and only used 2, (you can see the third one in the 'example-construction' photo above) so i can perform that 'interesting' test you suggest with a 'virgin' cell


i mention the current magnitude above

...i'm off to work now - a plus tard, mes amis


[edited to remove mistaken ref. to chemical action]
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 02:45:53 PM by nul-points »


Offline Omnibus

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Re: calling Maxwell's Daemon
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2011, 09:41:29 AM »
No, no, not at all. I've never had galvanic action in mind. The change in the post was to replace 'regression line' by 'regression curve', that's all. Sorry about the current value, I've missed it and have to go back and check it out. Anyway, like I said, very interesting research indeed.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: calling Maxwell's Daemon
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2011, 09:49:27 AM »
OK, I see it now -- on the order of a few uA. So the whole thing practically takes place in absence of current. Makes one really wonder what charges the battery. Now, I'm even more interested in seeing the voltage-time curve of an unloaded battery.

Probably, I missed that too but could you remind me what happens when the battery is replaced by caps.

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Offline mscoffman

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Re: calling Maxwell's Daemon
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2011, 05:42:38 PM »
@nul-points

One thing you should be aware of is that IR EMF and Random Molecular Thermal
Energy are closely related but distinct. Low frequency IR is incredibly difficult
to filter out, even after traversing masses of material. For example, used in
“seeing through walls”.

Matter and Infrared and random thermal energy interact in a Planck Black Body
as random thermal energy automatically produces a Black Body Spectrum of
self induced Infrared EMF (radiant thermal and optical) energy depending on
an object's temperature.

Usually receptors have their own temperature and the detector material's own
random motion inhibits the sensor from receiving any extra energy from objects
with temperatures below that point. This is why sensitive IR detectors need
to be cryogenically cooled.

There are three sources above Black Body thermal IR spectrum in everyday life.
One is us – living materials. Two is the Sun's energy falling on rooftops. Three is
the Infrared Spectrum coming from the ground, as the center of the earth is a
reactor heated by elemental nuclear decay.   

As far as I am concerned any non-black body IR spectrum energy is free energy,
but it is not associated with Maxwell’s Demon which is associated only with
statistical decoding (rectification) of random molecular thermal motion.

The large difference between everyday chemical energy levels 1or2 electron volts
and nuclear energy levels (10Mev etc.) prevent the leveraging of the statistics of
matter for operations that would be used to “decode” normal random thermal
motions, this is why Maxwell’s Demons are difficult to observe.

One should always be on the lookout for novel forms of matter that may well have
statistics differing from normal matter that could be used to construct a synthetic
Maxwell Demon.

So, What I am saying is; the devices in question may have more in common with
deep-IR solar cells rather than Maxwell’s Demons. Something that very careful
experimentation might be able to resolve.


:S:MarkSCoffman

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Re: calling Maxwell's Daemon
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2011, 05:42:38 PM »

 

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